[C2] 327 Boil-over problem
01-19-2018, 02:13 PM
#21
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no problem. been chasing heat for years.
i found a defective fan clutch was an issue, slipped when hot.
then i chased thermostats.
found that, i guess from new gas blends, that by time the
190 opened, there were hot spots in the block that
wanted to stay hot.
a 160 solved that.
as far as rad rework, here again times have changed and
buying a new rad is more cost effective.
i use to go to rad shops for rodding and soldiering thinking
i was saving money.
guess labor and epa here in ca made buying a new one the better choice.
i like modine, and afr.
needless to say, car finally runs at the temp i want.
goodluck
Shop said new aluminum rad for my car was $467, whereas rodding out existing was about $200, thus my interest in the rod out. I'm happy your detective work solved your problem, and thanks for helping me to solve mine!
01-19-2018, 02:31 PM
#22
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St. Jude Donor '22
an aluminum rad?
that would change the labor to new equation.
i just changed an alum rad in my cad.
the orig had end cap/plastic/ seal leaks.
the new was one i bought was priced way below 460.
I could have had the seals at the caps changed for less but
time, new, just added up right for a new one.
that would change the labor to new equation.
i just changed an alum rad in my cad.
the orig had end cap/plastic/ seal leaks.
the new was one i bought was priced way below 460.
I could have had the seals at the caps changed for less but
time, new, just added up right for a new one.
01-19-2018, 02:51 PM
#23
Le Mans Master
Here's my suggestion and it's worth exactly what you're paying for it. Go back to post #10 and read the PDF that John put there, then re-read it and then read it again. You are a self described "noob" who is asking a lot of questions but who doesn't appear to have a firm grasp on what to do with the information except run it back to the "hot rod mechanic". There are several knowledgeable folks here trying to assist you, but you need a basic understanding of how a cooling system works. What would be very helpful for those of us here, would be some pictures of your engine compartment shot from several different angles...closeups and regular shots. Possibly there is something visual we can spot to help turn you in the right direction. As was stated early on, don't keep throwing parts (money) at this problem until you can go at it with some solid knowledge.
BTW, I would start with a tried and true old school mechanic...your guy doesn't sound like that kind of mechanic. These old cars are extremely simple to work on and logically work thru issues like this...don't over complicate the situation
BTW, I would start with a tried and true old school mechanic...your guy doesn't sound like that kind of mechanic. These old cars are extremely simple to work on and logically work thru issues like this...don't over complicate the situation
01-19-2018, 02:56 PM
#24
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Thread Starter
Are you 100% sure that the engine ran uneventfully before the tune up/rad cap replacement, with no boilover on heat soak (shut-down)?
What, exactly was tampered with during the tune up?
Did the mechanic "adjust" the fill level in the surge tank from where it had been before?
If the answer to both of these questions show nothing of interest, then you either have a faulty cap, or you should replace it with a STANT 15# cap. You don't need a "Lev-R-Vent" type cap.
What, exactly was tampered with during the tune up?
Did the mechanic "adjust" the fill level in the surge tank from where it had been before?
If the answer to both of these questions show nothing of interest, then you either have a faulty cap, or you should replace it with a STANT 15# cap. You don't need a "Lev-R-Vent" type cap.
Honestly, I've never had the car running long enough to know if the problem occurred before the mechanic tinkered with the engine, so I can't be 100% sure.
He did the following:
1) replaced rusted headers with ram horns and new pipes, connected to sidepipes (boil-over existed before this)
2) new plugs/plug wires/distributor cap
3) new starter
4) 180 degree AC/Delco t-stat (has been changed out twice to 190 in hopes of solving boil-over, another member suggested putting a 160 in)
5) removed valve covers, fan, pump pulleys (to check fan and add external rad fan, which hasn't done squat)
6) relocated alternator
7) new starter
8) adjusted timing
I don't think he adjusted the fill level in the surge tank. He seemed surprised that the tank was so small, that was when he changed the t-stat to the 180 and added the "correct" Lev-R-Vent AC/Delco pressure cap (which has been changed to, respectively, a non-lev-r-vent 10, 13, and now 16lb napa cap)
Thanks for your thoughts!
01-19-2018, 03:30 PM
#25
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Thread Starter
Here's my suggestion and it's worth exactly what you're paying for it. Go back to post #10 and read the PDF that John put there, then re-read it and then read it again. You are a self described "noob" who is asking a lot of questions but who doesn't appear to have a firm grasp on what to do with the information except run it back to the "hot rod mechanic". There are several knowledgeable folks here trying to assist you, but you need a basic understanding of how a cooling system works. What would be very helpful for those of us here, would be some pictures of your engine compartment shot from several different angles...closeups and regular shots. Possibly there is something visual we can spot to help turn you in the right direction. As was stated early on, don't keep throwing parts (money) at this problem until you can go at it with some solid knowledge.
BTW, I would start with a tried and true old school mechanic...your guy doesn't sound like that kind of mechanic. These old cars are extremely simple to work on and logically work thru issues like this...don't over complicate the situation
BTW, I would start with a tried and true old school mechanic...your guy doesn't sound like that kind of mechanic. These old cars are extremely simple to work on and logically work thru issues like this...don't over complicate the situation
01-19-2018, 03:36 PM
#26
Advanced
Thread Starter
Here's my suggestion and it's worth exactly what you're paying for it. Go back to post #10 and read the PDF that John put there, then re-read it and then read it again. You are a self described "noob" who is asking a lot of questions but who doesn't appear to have a firm grasp on what to do with the information except run it back to the "hot rod mechanic". There are several knowledgeable folks here trying to assist you, but you need a basic understanding of how a cooling system works. What would be very helpful for those of us here, would be some pictures of your engine compartment shot from several different angles...closeups and regular shots. Possibly there is something visual we can spot to help turn you in the right direction. As was stated early on, don't keep throwing parts (money) at this problem until you can go at it with some solid knowledge.
BTW, I would start with a tried and true old school mechanic...your guy doesn't sound like that kind of mechanic. These old cars are extremely simple to work on and logically work thru issues like this...don't over complicate the situation
BTW, I would start with a tried and true old school mechanic...your guy doesn't sound like that kind of mechanic. These old cars are extremely simple to work on and logically work thru issues like this...don't over complicate the situation
01-19-2018, 04:30 PM
#27
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At Leif's behest, I finally sat down and read this terrific and in layman's terms article, thank you, I learned stuff!
01-19-2018, 04:36 PM
#28
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HI tripleblack and thanks!
1) replaced rusted headers with ram horns and new pipes, connected to sidepipes (boil-over existed before this)
2) new plugs/plug wires/distributor cap
3) new starter
4) 180 degree AC/Delco t-stat (has been changed out twice to 190 in hopes of solving boil-over, another member suggested putting a 160 in)
5) removed valve covers, fan, pump pulleys (to check fan and add external rad fan, which hasn't done squat)
6) relocated alternator
7) new starter
8) adjusted timing
Thanks for your thoughts!
1) replaced rusted headers with ram horns and new pipes, connected to sidepipes (boil-over existed before this)
2) new plugs/plug wires/distributor cap
3) new starter
4) 180 degree AC/Delco t-stat (has been changed out twice to 190 in hopes of solving boil-over, another member suggested putting a 160 in)
5) removed valve covers, fan, pump pulleys (to check fan and add external rad fan, which hasn't done squat)
6) relocated alternator
7) new starter
8) adjusted timing
Thanks for your thoughts!
number 5 made it worse.
you can not repair a original stacked plate aluminum rad. any time working on it is liking pissing in the wind. buy your self a new Dewitt and forget about it.
01-19-2018, 05:32 PM
#29
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Thread Starter
I learned this:
90% of cooling problems involve either volume of airflow or heat transfer-ability of the radiator or both.
Aluminum radiators are irreparable, copper/brass non-OEMs like mine can be rodded out or re-cored.
A balanced-flow thermostat is more accurately calibrated than those bought from parts stores.
A 50-50 mix of water and coolant is ideal. Use Zerex GO-5 or HOAT.
Don't mess with the fan unless fan clutch is an issue. Chevy calibrated everything to work together.
Water pumps are rarely the problem unless they leak from the weep hole.
Don't trust the dash temp gauge...IRs are more accurate and are shot on the upper rad hose just above the t-stat housing with the engine at full temperature.
Ignition timing can be a major contributor to idle and low-speed cooling problems. Vacuum advance should be connected to full manifold vacuum. Readjust idle speed and mixture screws and stabilize the idle with the vacuum advance fully-deployed. I believe the speed shop said something to this affect when I discussed another member's "check the vacuum advance" comment. I didn't understand inadequate spark advance or A.I.R. or whether these apply to my engine or not. The tune-up mechanic DID reset the timing, but I was puking coolant before he did that.
The radiator cap and thermostat have nothing to do with the engine temperature. Operating temperature is reduced only via more airflow or more radiator.
Although it wasn't specific, I assume a higher-numbered pound cap should prevent the coolant from puking out via the overflow hose. Using a 16lb cap, however, has not stopped or slowed the puking of my 327.
01-19-2018, 06:02 PM
#30
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For once someone read and understand and replied back. That doesn’t happen very often on here.
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Revfan (05-17-2018)
01-19-2018, 06:21 PM
#31
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I've been on numerous forums over the years (audio, computer, etc.) and often I get NO response or a wisecrack answer.
Corvette Forum is the ONLY place I get consistent and real help (and quickly)! Everyone here seems to care. Thanks to all of you!
01-19-2018, 06:31 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15-'16
Thanks for your advice to re-read (and think about) the cooling.pdf John sent, Leif!
I learned this:
90% of cooling problems involve either volume of airflow or heat transfer-ability of the radiator or both.
Aluminum radiators are irreparable, copper/brass non-OEMs like mine can be rodded out or re-cored.
A balanced-flow thermostat is more accurately calibrated than those bought from parts stores.
A 50-50 mix of water and coolant is ideal. Use Zerex GO-5 or HOAT.
Don't mess with the fan unless fan clutch is an issue. Chevy calibrated everything to work together.
Water pumps are rarely the problem unless they leak from the weep hole.
Don't trust the dash temp gauge...IRs are more accurate and are shot on the upper rad hose just above the t-stat housing with the engine at full temperature.
Ignition timing can be a major contributor to idle and low-speed cooling problems. Vacuum advance should be connected to full manifold vacuum. Readjust idle speed and mixture screws and stabilize the idle with the vacuum advance fully-deployed. I believe the speed shop said something to this affect when I discussed another member's "check the vacuum advance" comment. I didn't understand inadequate spark advance or A.I.R. or whether these apply to my engine or not. The tune-up mechanic DID reset the timing, but I was puking coolant before he did that.
The radiator cap and thermostat have nothing to do with the engine temperature. Operating temperature is reduced only via more airflow or more radiator.
Although it wasn't specific, I assume a higher-numbered pound cap should prevent the coolant from puking out via the overflow hose. Using a 16lb cap, however, has not stopped or slowed the puking of my 327.
I learned this:
90% of cooling problems involve either volume of airflow or heat transfer-ability of the radiator or both.
Aluminum radiators are irreparable, copper/brass non-OEMs like mine can be rodded out or re-cored.
A balanced-flow thermostat is more accurately calibrated than those bought from parts stores.
A 50-50 mix of water and coolant is ideal. Use Zerex GO-5 or HOAT.
Don't mess with the fan unless fan clutch is an issue. Chevy calibrated everything to work together.
Water pumps are rarely the problem unless they leak from the weep hole.
Don't trust the dash temp gauge...IRs are more accurate and are shot on the upper rad hose just above the t-stat housing with the engine at full temperature.
Ignition timing can be a major contributor to idle and low-speed cooling problems. Vacuum advance should be connected to full manifold vacuum. Readjust idle speed and mixture screws and stabilize the idle with the vacuum advance fully-deployed. I believe the speed shop said something to this affect when I discussed another member's "check the vacuum advance" comment. I didn't understand inadequate spark advance or A.I.R. or whether these apply to my engine or not. The tune-up mechanic DID reset the timing, but I was puking coolant before he did that.
The radiator cap and thermostat have nothing to do with the engine temperature. Operating temperature is reduced only via more airflow or more radiator.
Although it wasn't specific, I assume a higher-numbered pound cap should prevent the coolant from puking out via the overflow hose. Using a 16lb cap, however, has not stopped or slowed the puking of my 327.
Don
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Surf454 (01-19-2018)
01-19-2018, 06:38 PM
#33
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It's the least I can do considering the time and effort you guys cheerfully put into helping me. And you share your knowledge with the great unwashed, for free!
I've been on numerous forums over the years (audio, computer, etc.) and often I get NO response or a wisecrack answer.
Corvette Forum is the ONLY place I get consistent and real help (and quickly)! Everyone here seems to care. Thanks to all of you!
I've been on numerous forums over the years (audio, computer, etc.) and often I get NO response or a wisecrack answer.
Corvette Forum is the ONLY place I get consistent and real help (and quickly)! Everyone here seems to care. Thanks to all of you!
01-19-2018, 09:07 PM
#36
Le Mans Master
After looking over all the pictures you posted, I am not going to even begin to try and diagnose what is wrong with your car. What I will suggest, again, is find a really good, old school mechanic. There has been so much done to this engine compartment, that if it were mine, I would tear down and start all over again. The routing of so many of the hoses is unusual, aftermarket carb and intake, plugged vacuum lines, radiator and the list goes on. This is going to take some time and, unfortunately, some money to get straightened out. Don't give up on her, just find a good mechanic and he can get you back on the road and running cool. Best of luck and please keep us in the loop as you progress
P.S. I'm glad you took the time to read John's informative article. That article, along with other member's advice helped solve my overheating problem several years ago. My solution was a process, as well, so I can relate to what you're going thru. Just stick with it...you'll get it solved.
P.S. I'm glad you took the time to read John's informative article. That article, along with other member's advice helped solve my overheating problem several years ago. My solution was a process, as well, so I can relate to what you're going thru. Just stick with it...you'll get it solved.
Last edited by leif.anderson93; 01-19-2018 at 09:18 PM.
01-19-2018, 09:47 PM
#37
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Thread Starter
After looking over all the pictures you posted, I am not going to even begin to try and diagnose what is wrong with your car. What I will suggest, again, is find a really good, old school mechanic. There has been so much done to this engine compartment, that if it were mine, I would tear down and start all over again. The routing of so many of the hoses is unusual, aftermarket carb and intake, plugged vacuum lines, radiator and the list goes on. This is going to take some time and, unfortunately, some money to get straightened out. Don't give up on her, just find a good mechanic and he can get you back on the road and running cool. Best of luck and please keep us in the loop as you progress
P.S. I'm glad you took the time to read John's informative article. That article, along with other member's advice helped solve my overheating problem several years ago. My solution was a process, as well, so I can relate to what you're going thru. Just stick with it...you'll get it solved.
P.S. I'm glad you took the time to read John's informative article. That article, along with other member's advice helped solve my overheating problem several years ago. My solution was a process, as well, so I can relate to what you're going thru. Just stick with it...you'll get it solved.
01-19-2018, 10:12 PM
#38
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Also has a "puller" electric fan hung on the back of the generic copper/brass replacement radiator (5th pic in post #26), and the coolant plumbing around the expansion tank looks like a bundle of snakes. Each hose has a job to do - they need to be installed per the Assembly Manual (you DO have the Assembly Manual, right?).
01-19-2018, 11:10 PM
#39
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Also has a "puller" electric fan hung on the back of the generic copper/brass replacement radiator (5th pic in post #26), and the coolant plumbing around the expansion tank looks like a bundle of snakes. Each hose has a job to do - they need to be installed per the Assembly Manual (you DO have the Assembly Manual, right?).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Assembly-In...pWnTQd&vxp=mtr
01-19-2018, 11:30 PM
#40
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I looked at the Haynes manuals listed on corvette forum, but they didn't seem to have one for C2s. Were you referring to this, or one like it? Thanks.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Assembly-In...pWnTQd&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Assembly-In...pWnTQd&vxp=mtr