1966 l-88
04-02-2018, 11:15 PM
#21
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Duke
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04-02-2018, 11:23 PM
#22
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As a former GM production engineer and engineering liaison for the '69 Firebird pilot line build at Van Nuys I can say unequivocally that you don't run a pilot car down the line until all the parts have been released, and that includes mid-production release of new options.
Duke
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04-02-2018, 11:57 PM
#24
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Good point... never thought of that, but you could have been clearer.
Yeah, if it was a real L-88 it might not have reached Penske's shop with all eight pistons intact unless there were plenty of Sunoco stations on the route. I think "260" would have been okay, especially of Guldstrand was easy on the throttle.
I expect the car was ordered with a 3.08 axle (and it may have been replaced with a 2.73). That would have made it real fun getting it going from a dead stop with the CR M-22.
Duke
Yeah, if it was a real L-88 it might not have reached Penske's shop with all eight pistons intact unless there were plenty of Sunoco stations on the route. I think "260" would have been okay, especially of Guldstrand was easy on the throttle.
I expect the car was ordered with a 3.08 axle (and it may have been replaced with a 2.73). That would have made it real fun getting it going from a dead stop with the CR M-22.
Duke
Last edited by SWCDuke; 04-03-2018 at 12:01 AM.
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409/409 (04-03-2018)
04-03-2018, 12:27 AM
#25
Melting Slicks
Good point... never thought of that, but you could have been clearer.
Yeah, if it was a real L-88 it might not have reached Penske's shop with all eight pistons intact unless there were plenty of Sunoco stations on the route. I think "260" would have been okay, especially of Guldstrand was easy on the throttle.
I expect the car was ordered with a 3.08 axle (and it may have been replaced with a 2.73). That would have made it real fun getting it going from a dead stop with the CR M-22.
Duke
Yeah, if it was a real L-88 it might not have reached Penske's shop with all eight pistons intact unless there were plenty of Sunoco stations on the route. I think "260" would have been okay, especially of Guldstrand was easy on the throttle.
I expect the car was ordered with a 3.08 axle (and it may have been replaced with a 2.73). That would have made it real fun getting it going from a dead stop with the CR M-22.
Duke
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409/409 (04-03-2018)
04-03-2018, 01:56 AM
#26
Team Owner
You think! So what evidence do you have to back up your theory?
As a former GM production engineer and engineering liaison for the '69 Firebird pilot line build at Van Nuys I can say unequivocally that you don't run a pilot car down the line until all the parts have been released, and that includes mid-production release of new options. When they swapped the engine at the track
Duke
As a former GM production engineer and engineering liaison for the '69 Firebird pilot line build at Van Nuys I can say unequivocally that you don't run a pilot car down the line until all the parts have been released, and that includes mid-production release of new options. When they swapped the engine at the track
Duke
Pilot line not in the true sense, but the car was essentially escorted down the line.
I have picked over this story with Dick in talking. Dick remembered the air cleaner, but not the hood precisely. He had a heck of a time starting it in the cold. He was late getting there to get it. Thus no real fanfare picking it up. He said he was concerned with breaking in the engine, and he said he drove it with that in mind. The engine was not disassembled, Another engine was not installed at the Penske shop!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 04-03-2018 at 02:10 AM.
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409/409 (04-03-2018)
04-03-2018, 11:33 AM
#27
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You guys need to reread the quote I posted from the Corvette News on page 1 of this thread.
Applying Occam's Razor and my knowledge of the GM development and production processes, a L-72 was installed on the production line. Race prep was completed at Penske's shop including installation of the cold air hood they received from Chevrolet Engineering. The engine was not changed, and the car practiced on Thursday with the St. Louis installed L-72. (Keep in mind that with the racing exhaust system a "stock" L-72 is only about ten percent down (50-60 HP) from a blueprinted L-88.
After practice on Thursday, the St. Louis-installed L-72 was removed in the paddock and the Traco-built engine that had L-88 prototype parts was installed for qualifying on Friday and the race on Saturday/Sunday.
Just because a lot of people believe a story doesn't mean it true. What counts is bonafide evidence!
I've been through Kevin McKay's thick three ring binder... lots of interesting docs, but not one iota of information on the car's build configuration. I think he has backed off from his claim that the car left St. Louis with a "L-88".
Duke
Applying Occam's Razor and my knowledge of the GM development and production processes, a L-72 was installed on the production line. Race prep was completed at Penske's shop including installation of the cold air hood they received from Chevrolet Engineering. The engine was not changed, and the car practiced on Thursday with the St. Louis installed L-72. (Keep in mind that with the racing exhaust system a "stock" L-72 is only about ten percent down (50-60 HP) from a blueprinted L-88.
After practice on Thursday, the St. Louis-installed L-72 was removed in the paddock and the Traco-built engine that had L-88 prototype parts was installed for qualifying on Friday and the race on Saturday/Sunday.
Just because a lot of people believe a story doesn't mean it true. What counts is bonafide evidence!
I've been through Kevin McKay's thick three ring binder... lots of interesting docs, but not one iota of information on the car's build configuration. I think he has backed off from his claim that the car left St. Louis with a "L-88".
Duke
Last edited by SWCDuke; 04-03-2018 at 11:39 AM.
04-03-2018, 07:29 PM
#28
Team Owner
So why did Penske a notable racer and part of the Grand Sport team need to go to the factory to get that car, because that particular special one wasn't available at any Dealership, as it wasn't a basis L-72!
Think about that!
Think about that!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 04-03-2018 at 07:32 PM.
04-03-2018, 07:33 PM
#29
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was time short and was quicker to drive it back to PA then to have it shipped via the normal carrier?
04-03-2018, 07:42 PM
#30
Team Owner
Last edited by TCracingCA; 04-03-2018 at 07:43 PM.
04-03-2018, 07:48 PM
#31
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04-03-2018, 07:49 PM
#33
Melting Slicks
Do you really think engineering would have put one of their new and untested HD engines in a customers new car?
I know the story about a rare 1966 L88 Corvette has been around for a few years now but I think it's wishful thinking from a few 66 owners.
That car already has an excellent racing history. It doesn't have to become a mysterious one off L88.
04-03-2018, 07:56 PM
#34
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Critter that is one cool sets of papers. what GM book is that from? For a ban on racing the engineers sure spent some time making it happen
04-03-2018, 08:05 PM
#35
Team Owner
St. Louis to Newton is 600 miles! Plenty of closer places to pickup an L-72.
In MKII program, they field stripped or shipped development engines back to be evaluated after some usage! The L88 would have gone thru the same type of program! Break it in and then go testing and practice with it and then see how it was doing, how it held up! Funny how it got changed at the track!!!!
So if we follow you guys and your line of thinking:
They go to the Factory to get a generic L-72 clandestinely!
Guldstrand had problems starting a street tuned L-72
Guldstrand needed a blanket, as they forgot to put a heater in the L-72
Penake garage removes an L-72 to put in a shipped special arranged L88 in the Newton garage!
Then they pull the L88 out for another L88 at the track!
Ya, got it! Following your logic!
When I spoke to Penske on this, the scrutineering tags and seals kind of was a problem! As FIA lock wires everything! They kind of had to get creative!
In MKII program, they field stripped or shipped development engines back to be evaluated after some usage! The L88 would have gone thru the same type of program! Break it in and then go testing and practice with it and then see how it was doing, how it held up! Funny how it got changed at the track!!!!
So if we follow you guys and your line of thinking:
They go to the Factory to get a generic L-72 clandestinely!
Guldstrand had problems starting a street tuned L-72
Guldstrand needed a blanket, as they forgot to put a heater in the L-72
Penake garage removes an L-72 to put in a shipped special arranged L88 in the Newton garage!
Then they pull the L88 out for another L88 at the track!
Ya, got it! Following your logic!
When I spoke to Penske on this, the scrutineering tags and seals kind of was a problem! As FIA lock wires everything! They kind of had to get creative!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 04-03-2018 at 08:18 PM.
04-03-2018, 08:30 PM
#37
Team Owner
Ford was full into the FIA World Championship starting in 1964 and leading at this time in 1965. The 427 Cobra was being ran around, with an attempt to homologate it! FIA papers were submitted for the 427!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 04-03-2018 at 08:33 PM.
04-03-2018, 08:52 PM
#38
Team Owner
Many here know I like to parallel histories to get the picture of what was happening!
They had the Turd 390 Cobra at the 1964 Sebring!
It showed up a Nassau years end, after some refinement! I said "some"!
Sept 64, GT-350 production started
First 427 prototypes tested Oct 64
Jan 1st 1965, the production started on the 427 Cobras!
Jan 1965, Press introduction of the 427 Cobra to the press!
Feb 1965 Fords premier racers, get the 427 in those two GT-40s painted Guardsman blue for Daytona! They win!
The Cobra 427 missed being homologated. 56 chassis completed, and only 51 cars! There had been talk of FIA lifting the 100 car requirement for 50. It didn't happen yet, but would later!
Aug 1965 (15) 427 Competition Cobras sold for SCCA racing.
Zora was incensed about all of this!
They had the Turd 390 Cobra at the 1964 Sebring!
It showed up a Nassau years end, after some refinement! I said "some"!
Sept 64, GT-350 production started
First 427 prototypes tested Oct 64
Jan 1st 1965, the production started on the 427 Cobras!
Jan 1965, Press introduction of the 427 Cobra to the press!
Feb 1965 Fords premier racers, get the 427 in those two GT-40s painted Guardsman blue for Daytona! They win!
The Cobra 427 missed being homologated. 56 chassis completed, and only 51 cars! There had been talk of FIA lifting the 100 car requirement for 50. It didn't happen yet, but would later!
Aug 1965 (15) 427 Competition Cobras sold for SCCA racing.
Zora was incensed about all of this!
04-03-2018, 09:04 PM
#39
Team Owner
Ok I thought or think I covered why people are confused over a L-72. I looked back, but could not find the exact thread where I covered this! I have a lot of long thread participations, and I get bored easy trying to search through them! I found my MK II family history write up and rereading all of that coming from me was like an outer body experience! I impressed myself!
The Penske car basically came down the line with an L-72 base, but built up of these special HD components! And it got a set of experimental Aluminum heads slapped onto it!
So technically I guess you could call it any one of the three (L-72 modified, HD engine, or L88)! Take your pick!
This L88 build in 1966 was designated 425hp in the literature!
The car ended up being ran at both Daytona and Sebring with the Traco Grays (Their base Can Am Iron units). But Aluminum heads were attempted twice! That same thread I looked for, covered that also!
In Vette Vues, which most of you guys threw out, so as not to clutter up the house (mine is still cluttered up), there was an extensive research article done in an issue exploring the run up of these 1966 steps of the L88 development! There is also nice M22 research also in that old worthless Vette Vues Mag! There is also some confusion by the so called experts clear into the mid 70s as the 16 aluminum head L89 cars being part of the 20 L88s. One or two of you guys on this forum were in on that confusion back in the day too!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 04-03-2018 at 09:13 PM.
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