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I'm going through my dash wiring with all new wiring harnesses throughout the car and have checked all of the connections several times with the schematics. Everything is hooked up right but when I turn the power on at the battery with the ignition switch in the off position the starter runs . If I leave the ignition switch in the on position and connect the battery it turns the starter fine when I turn it to start and stops when I return it to the on position but the starter will start running again if I turn the switch all the way to off. If I disconnect the single pink wire at the accessory block or the double pink wire at the ignition the starter works as it should . I thought it was a defective aftermarket ignition switch but I bought a NOS GM ignition switch and it does the same thing. According to the schematic , the pink accessory wires should have no effect on the purple wire and the starting system. Any electrical savvy guys out there want to scratch your head on this one . I've wired many classic cars and solved as many problems in these old systems , but this one makes no sense.
does a 57 have two small wires at the starter solenoid and do you have them reversed?
Mine has been converted to HEI ignition so it doesn't use the resistor terminal ( R) on the starter , just the "S" terminal ( purple wire ) on the solenoid .
does a 57 have two small wires at the starter solenoid and do you have them reversed?
I believe this is the problem.
My '63 Shop Manual shows the purple wire attached to the R terminal, which bypasses the ballast resistor during cranking. Since the HEI has no R terminal the purple wire should be tied off and insulated since it is hot during cranking.
So if I'm following what you did, you have somehow attached a wire that is hot when the key is off to the S terminal on the solenoid. That leads me back to my first question did you mix up the S and R wires?
It seems that the SOL terminal on the ignition switch is getting power from ACC. If he removes the Pink 2x terminal from the ignition switch OR the feed to the fuse panel, it's gone. All of these are tied at the switch. If the panel has a Red wire on it, it is always powered. If the Pink is connected to Red, ACC will always have power. Check the Pink wires for power with key off. You may want to disconnect the Purple wire at the starter S terminal and attach a test light to it until you find the problem.
The internals and switching table for a 57 switch is unique. A stock 57 starter solenoid didn't use a R terminal. The IGN switch has a separate IGN2 terminal to supply BAT to coil+ during START/CRANK. This is the Dark Green wire in the harness. Since this has HEI this wire is not needed and should be disabled and insulated, or simply removed from the IGN switch.
A table of operation of the ignition switch. Need to verify if SOL & ACC are tied in OFF. I think they may be when I visually overlay the contactor over the copper contacts. I don't have one here to verify.
Also, does this same problem happen in IGN "LOCK"? I think it won't.
Here's the inside of a 57 switch contacts and the shape of the contactor. When key OFF, it may connect ACC to SOL. If so, this could be why the starter is engaging.....IF ACC always has power via a short to Power in the Pink wires.
It seems that the SOL terminal on the ignition switch is getting power from ACC. If he removes the Pink 2x terminal from the ignition switch OR the feed to the fuse panel, it's gone. All of these are tied at the switch. If the panel has a Red wire on it, it is always powered. If the Pink is connected to Red, ACC will always have power. Check the Pink wires for power with key off. You may want to disconnect the Purple wire at the starter S terminal and attach a test light to it until you find the problem.
The internals and switching table for a 57 switch is unique. A stock 57 starter solenoid didn't use a R terminal. The IGN switch has a separate IGN2 terminal to supply BAT to coil+ during START/CRANK. This is the Dark Green wire in the harness. Since this has HEI this wire is not needed and should be disabled and insulated, or simply removed from the IGN switch.
A table of operation of the ignition switch. Need to verify if SOL & ACC are tied in OFF. I think they may be when I visually overlay the contactor over the copper contacts. I don't have one here to verify.
Also, does this same problem happen in IGN "LOCK"? I think it won't.
Here's the inside of a 57 switch contacts and the shape of the contactor. When key OFF, it may connect ACC to SOL. If so, this could be why the starter is engaging.....IF ACC always has power via a short to Power in the Pink wires.
Thanks for this information . It gives me an idea what is going on inside the ignition . With this and my schematic I can probably find the problem .
As of this morning the strange problem is fixed thanks to the on line and off line help through email communication with Forum member rich5962 . This is a problem that I fought with all week no thanks to the mistakes in the original schematics which showed the pink acc. wires running off of the hot fuse block . Since I eliminated the ign.1 brown wire when I converted to HEI distributor I was able to move the green ign. green wire to the center post which used to be the ign.2 post . On the other connector on that post I ran a jumper wire to the acc. terminal and the pink acc. wires also connect to the other terminal on Acc. Those wires run to gas gauge , temp gauge , and turn signal flasher . This eliminated the problem that I was having . These schematics can get you into trouble since they are not accurate . They don't even mention any wiring for the heater and wipers . Thanks again to rich5962 for all of your help .
04-11-2018, 03:41 PM
1957 Ignition system Gremlin
