[C2] Newbie to the forum engine stamp question
#1
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Newbie to the forum engine stamp question
Question, L79 motor engine stamp number 103821 Fi0i5HT. What does the “i0i5” number mean?
I am doing some research on my 66 coupe I purchased 5 years ago. A member of the this forum asked me some good questions that I should have been able to answer. The car did not come with any paperwork history. I am trying to figure out the history of my car. The guy I purchased the car from (out of hood river oregon) told me it came out of the Palm Springs area. It was owned by an older gentleman that had two 66’s one blue and one white. The white one was his wives and the blue his. His wife passed away and he remarried. The new wife told him he had to get rid of the white one so he sold it. I guess he should have gotten rid of the new wife not the car. HaHa... He told me the car was rebuilt in the LA Cal. Area. I have been to a few car gatherings in the Portland area and my car looks much better than most 66’s i see. One gentleman said he thought my car may have come from “Mikes Corvette”. He said only they do work as nice as my car. I have a call into Mikes to see if they did the work.
The vin number on my car is 194376S103821. Then there is four strange numbers stamped on the plate not OEM “0 11 5”. I suspect this maybe a rebuilders job number perhaps to show they did the rebuild. I will try to attach a photo of the plate. From what I can tell the rebuild was done in 2002 to maybe 2004. The tires have 2002 dates. The transmission heat shield under the car has a 2003 date sticker.
If anybody has any information on the history of my car i would greatly appreciate hearing from you.
My car is white with blue interior factory AC. Four speed non power steering.
I am sure I will have a lot more questions.
Thanks in advance
Tony
I am doing some research on my 66 coupe I purchased 5 years ago. A member of the this forum asked me some good questions that I should have been able to answer. The car did not come with any paperwork history. I am trying to figure out the history of my car. The guy I purchased the car from (out of hood river oregon) told me it came out of the Palm Springs area. It was owned by an older gentleman that had two 66’s one blue and one white. The white one was his wives and the blue his. His wife passed away and he remarried. The new wife told him he had to get rid of the white one so he sold it. I guess he should have gotten rid of the new wife not the car. HaHa... He told me the car was rebuilt in the LA Cal. Area. I have been to a few car gatherings in the Portland area and my car looks much better than most 66’s i see. One gentleman said he thought my car may have come from “Mikes Corvette”. He said only they do work as nice as my car. I have a call into Mikes to see if they did the work.
The vin number on my car is 194376S103821. Then there is four strange numbers stamped on the plate not OEM “0 11 5”. I suspect this maybe a rebuilders job number perhaps to show they did the rebuild. I will try to attach a photo of the plate. From what I can tell the rebuild was done in 2002 to maybe 2004. The tires have 2002 dates. The transmission heat shield under the car has a 2003 date sticker.
If anybody has any information on the history of my car i would greatly appreciate hearing from you.
My car is white with blue interior factory AC. Four speed non power steering.
I am sure I will have a lot more questions.
Thanks in advance
Tony
#2
Drifting
FI0I5HT:
F = Flint Michigan
I0I5 = October 15 engine assembly date
HT = SHP 327 (L79)
The stamp on your VIN tag was done by the dealer, I believe, indicating the delivery date.
Can't be sure the engine stamp is the one the car left the factory with...
Nice looking car, and beagle too
Join the NCRS and they have a service which will provide you with a document stating the car's birthday, and the name and location of the dealer that originally sold the car.
F = Flint Michigan
I0I5 = October 15 engine assembly date
HT = SHP 327 (L79)
The stamp on your VIN tag was done by the dealer, I believe, indicating the delivery date.
Can't be sure the engine stamp is the one the car left the factory with...
Nice looking car, and beagle too
Join the NCRS and they have a service which will provide you with a document stating the car's birthday, and the name and location of the dealer that originally sold the car.
Last edited by SW Vette; 06-10-2018 at 04:17 AM.
#3
Team Owner
GM used capital I instead of ones on engine stamps. That last 6 digits of your VIN should also be preceded by the number 6 on the pad. The numbers on your pad are not stamped in the normal locations on the pad that you would expect to see. The information given you by the previous poster is correct.
The font and spacing is usually more like this:
The font and spacing is usually more like this:
Last edited by 65GGvert; 06-10-2018 at 09:01 AM.
#4
Race Director
For warranty purposes, dealers were supposed to stamp the delivery date on the VIN tag, though many didn't bother. The "DD" after Chevrolet on the tag stands for "delivery date". 66 VIN 3821 was built approximately on October 23, 1965, so I would assume that the "0 11 5" is probably a November 5th delivery date, though I can't explain the "0".
As SW Vette said, the I0I5 is actually "1015", or October 15th 1965, the date the engine was assembled. Chevrolet regularly interchanged "1" and "I"s on stampings and castings.
The stamping looks typical of factory stampings, though positioning is off. I'm having a hard time seeing any broach marks on the pad. It may just be the angle of the picture, or it could be that someone has used something abrasive to remove the paint from the pad, removing the broach marks too.
The trim tag indicates that the car was originally white (paint code 972), with a blue vinyl interior (trim 414). The "A" in the body number indicates the body was made by AO Smith, and the "C12" is the body build date, October 12th for an AO Smith body. The date fits well with the engine date (October 15) and the manufacturing date (October 23).
Side pipes were never installed on AO Smith bodies, so the side pipes are not original to the car.
As SW Vette said, the I0I5 is actually "1015", or October 15th 1965, the date the engine was assembled. Chevrolet regularly interchanged "1" and "I"s on stampings and castings.
The stamping looks typical of factory stampings, though positioning is off. I'm having a hard time seeing any broach marks on the pad. It may just be the angle of the picture, or it could be that someone has used something abrasive to remove the paint from the pad, removing the broach marks too.
The trim tag indicates that the car was originally white (paint code 972), with a blue vinyl interior (trim 414). The "A" in the body number indicates the body was made by AO Smith, and the "C12" is the body build date, October 12th for an AO Smith body. The date fits well with the engine date (October 15) and the manufacturing date (October 23).
Side pipes were never installed on AO Smith bodies, so the side pipes are not original to the car.
Last edited by gbvette62; 06-10-2018 at 03:18 PM. Reason: Fix AO Smith from OL Anderson
#5
Le Mans Master
OL Anderson made fuel tanks. AO Smith made corvette bodies, (as well as frames).
#6
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Nice car, and welcome.
To add a tiny bit more info:
You car's body was built by AOSmith body in Ionia, MI, on October, 12, 1965 (C12 - yes, the nomenclatures used are unintelligible without the codes) and shipped to St. Louis where the car was assembled on about 24 October (2831 VIN - exact records were not kept except end of the month)(the reason I say 24 October is that 23 October was a Sunday), but almost all build dates are approximations from known end of the month VINs.
You engine was assembled in Flint, MI (where virtually all small block Chevy engines from your year were cast and built [this is debated in some circles]) and shipped to St. Louis. The stamping indicates your engine as built on October 5th, 1965 as an L79 "HT" which means no AC, PS, or A.I.R.(early emissions equipment).
This provides two clues: the car, being built by AOSmith could not have come from the factory with side pipes, as AOSmith did not have the nibbler tool used to make the necessary notches, although your frame will have the side exhaust frame bolt eyes, as they all did. Second, your car did not come from the factory with AC, as the engine code stamp would say "HP" for an L79 with AC, instead of "HT" which is a L79 only (a nice engine - some say the best small block in C2s).
If you're really interested in originality (but this can be a rabbit hole, as some replacement parts can be spendy) I would recommend checking the following:
See if the inside of the rear valance panel (under the bumper) shows signs where an original valance with exhaust ports was filled (it may have just been replaced).
Does it have the center AC vent on top of the heater/AC controls? If so, someone went to a lot of trouble to add this if not built with it. More on this later.
Check the engine casting number, this is on the block surface just behind the driver's side head, and should normally say 3858174 with very few exceptions. One of those exceptions could be 3858180, but this remains unverified and is not a good thing unless the car has substantial proof of originality.
Last, check the engine casting date. This is on the block on the surface just behind the passenger side head and should read something like "J75" which decodes to October 7, 1965. This number has to be before (or in very rare cases, the date of the engine build) the engine build date (you can't cast the block after building the engine).
Where all of this is going: Back to your stamp pad.
First, your VIN derivative has to start with a "6" as was stated above. Maybe it is there, but from that picture I can't tell if the 6 is there.
Second, your car cannot have factory AC, unless in the rare case of a mis-stamping (it happens, but read on).
Third, your stampings are somewhat oddly aligned, most particularly the engine built stamping.
Fourth, IF your stampings were original, a key piece of evidence appears to have been lost (intentionally or not) as the broaching marks cannot be seen. These are machining marks running axially (front to back) where the engines tops were decked. Yours doesn't have them. Now, it could be due to using sandpaper to remove paint to read the stampings (the factory did not paint this surface), which, was a mistake (or was done in an attempt to cloud the veracity of the stampings).
Given:
Your engine code says no AC, the engine stamping stamping is somewhat off, and there are no broach marks, you either have a somewhat errant attempt to recreate a matching engine or you have a stamp pad with multiple factory anomalies.
This looks like a nice car, and you've enjoyed it for 5 years, so I say enjoy it and worry not about its originality, but check some of the deeper clues if you're motivated to do so.
Cute beagle pup, too
To add a tiny bit more info:
You car's body was built by AOSmith body in Ionia, MI, on October, 12, 1965 (C12 - yes, the nomenclatures used are unintelligible without the codes) and shipped to St. Louis where the car was assembled on about 24 October (2831 VIN - exact records were not kept except end of the month)(the reason I say 24 October is that 23 October was a Sunday), but almost all build dates are approximations from known end of the month VINs.
You engine was assembled in Flint, MI (where virtually all small block Chevy engines from your year were cast and built [this is debated in some circles]) and shipped to St. Louis. The stamping indicates your engine as built on October 5th, 1965 as an L79 "HT" which means no AC, PS, or A.I.R.(early emissions equipment).
This provides two clues: the car, being built by AOSmith could not have come from the factory with side pipes, as AOSmith did not have the nibbler tool used to make the necessary notches, although your frame will have the side exhaust frame bolt eyes, as they all did. Second, your car did not come from the factory with AC, as the engine code stamp would say "HP" for an L79 with AC, instead of "HT" which is a L79 only (a nice engine - some say the best small block in C2s).
If you're really interested in originality (but this can be a rabbit hole, as some replacement parts can be spendy) I would recommend checking the following:
See if the inside of the rear valance panel (under the bumper) shows signs where an original valance with exhaust ports was filled (it may have just been replaced).
Does it have the center AC vent on top of the heater/AC controls? If so, someone went to a lot of trouble to add this if not built with it. More on this later.
Check the engine casting number, this is on the block surface just behind the driver's side head, and should normally say 3858174 with very few exceptions. One of those exceptions could be 3858180, but this remains unverified and is not a good thing unless the car has substantial proof of originality.
Last, check the engine casting date. This is on the block on the surface just behind the passenger side head and should read something like "J75" which decodes to October 7, 1965. This number has to be before (or in very rare cases, the date of the engine build) the engine build date (you can't cast the block after building the engine).
Where all of this is going: Back to your stamp pad.
First, your VIN derivative has to start with a "6" as was stated above. Maybe it is there, but from that picture I can't tell if the 6 is there.
Second, your car cannot have factory AC, unless in the rare case of a mis-stamping (it happens, but read on).
Third, your stampings are somewhat oddly aligned, most particularly the engine built stamping.
Fourth, IF your stampings were original, a key piece of evidence appears to have been lost (intentionally or not) as the broaching marks cannot be seen. These are machining marks running axially (front to back) where the engines tops were decked. Yours doesn't have them. Now, it could be due to using sandpaper to remove paint to read the stampings (the factory did not paint this surface), which, was a mistake (or was done in an attempt to cloud the veracity of the stampings).
Given:
Your engine code says no AC, the engine stamping stamping is somewhat off, and there are no broach marks, you either have a somewhat errant attempt to recreate a matching engine or you have a stamp pad with multiple factory anomalies.
This looks like a nice car, and you've enjoyed it for 5 years, so I say enjoy it and worry not about its originality, but check some of the deeper clues if you're motivated to do so.
Cute beagle pup, too
Last edited by Easy Rhino; 06-10-2018 at 09:04 AM.
#7
Team Owner
HT does not exclude factory a/c in 66. Both HP and HT cars could have factory air.
#8
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Well, raise my rent. I always thought that engine codes were absolutes (except for factory errors).
Do you happen to know if this applies to engine codes other than the '66 L79?
#9
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I suggest more people should get the Corvette Black Book
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GreasyFingernails (03-31-2019)
#10
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There is no Engineering reason for a '66 or '67 with either A/C or power steering to have a unique engine assembly, as neither option has any affect on the basic engine as-shipped. It mattered in '64-'65 due to the relocation of the alternator to the LH side with A/C, but not in '66-'67 when ALL alternators were LH-mounted.
We may never know why they assigned the "HP" suffix, but known-original cars with A/C and/or power steering have been observed with "HT" suffixes. This debate has gone on for years.
Last edited by 65GGvert; 06-10-2018 at 09:43 AM.
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GreasyFingernails (03-31-2019)
#12
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#13
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No, I don't know. I got the L79 info from a quote from JohnZ when I had one that I am pretty sure was original with a/c and the HT stamp. Here is what I copied from JohnZ on the forum in a 2010 discussion.
There is no Engineering reason for a '66 or '67 with either A/C or power steering to have a unique engine assembly, as neither option has any affect on the basic engine as-shipped. It mattered in '64-'65 due to the relocation of the alternator to the LH side with A/C, but not in '66-'67 when ALL alternators were LH-mounted.
We may never know why they assigned the "HP" suffix, but known-original cars with A/C and/or power steering have been observed with "HT" suffixes. This debate has gone on for years.
There is no Engineering reason for a '66 or '67 with either A/C or power steering to have a unique engine assembly, as neither option has any affect on the basic engine as-shipped. It mattered in '64-'65 due to the relocation of the alternator to the LH side with A/C, but not in '66-'67 when ALL alternators were LH-mounted.
We may never know why they assigned the "HP" suffix, but known-original cars with A/C and/or power steering have been observed with "HT" suffixes. This debate has gone on for years.
#14
Team Owner
Well, given that for me John Z's credibility is unimpeachable, and his argument makes sense, as the reason for the different codes on 64-65s mattered during final assembly, I'm convinced. Thanks for the education, and I'll step aside, since as you say "this debate has gone on for years," and I have no dog in it.
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OP, I would suggest looking for additional signs of original AC, if interested. If the dash panel with the center AC vent shows all indications of being original, then it probably did come with AC, but be prepared for never-ending arguments about a stamp pad that does not specifically say "came with AC."
Last edited by Easy Rhino; 06-10-2018 at 10:35 AM.
#17
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[QUOTE=Nowhere Man;1597375499]
I suggest more people should get the Corvette Black Book[/QUOTE
Another example of the Black Book not being exact is that it shows no engine code for a 300HP that had A/C
I suggest more people should get the Corvette Black Book[/QUOTE
Another example of the Black Book not being exact is that it shows no engine code for a 300HP that had A/C
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[QUOTE=provette67;1597375820]The book has been in print for over 40 years maybe someone should contact Mike and have it corrected
#19
Drifting
Other clues as to the originality of the A/C are the position of the headlight opening switch, the orientation of the trip of reset ****, the configuration of underdash vent pulls, among other things.
Maybe there was a reason that cars with both A/C and PS required a unique stamp which even the esteemed JohnZ has overlooked, or maybe not. I wonder, does the car in question have power steering?
Maybe there was a reason that cars with both A/C and PS required a unique stamp which even the esteemed JohnZ has overlooked, or maybe not. I wonder, does the car in question have power steering?
#20
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[QUOTE=SW Vette;1597376089]Other clues as to the originality of the A/C are the position of the headlight opening switch, the orientation of the trip of reset ****, the configuration of underdash vent pulls, among other things.
Maybe there was a reason that cars with both A/C and PS required a unique stamp which even the esteemed JohnZ has overlooked, or maybe not. I wonder, does the car in question have power steering?[/QUOTE
The OP states no power steering
Maybe there was a reason that cars with both A/C and PS required a unique stamp which even the esteemed JohnZ has overlooked, or maybe not. I wonder, does the car in question have power steering?[/QUOTE
The OP states no power steering