rrhoppy

This is my first attempt at posting anything - so I may make a procedural error.

I am just finishing the resurrection of a 1965 Corvette that has been "parked/stored" since 1970
I am the second owner and have "stored" the car for the last 16 years.
Recently (7-18-2018) I attempted to get license plates so I could do some test drives.
The Ohio BMV told me my title issued in 2000 was no longer valid.
The reason was because on 3/20/2017, Arkansas (AMVC) issued a title with my VIN number.
After about 5 calls, I found out that Arkansas had issued a title with my VIN using only a
BILL OF SALE and a "fist full" of parts receipts as proof.
AND, I was told by Ohio BMV in Columbus, OH that nothing could be done until Arkansas released their title.

I then made dozens of phone calls to Arkansas AMVC , Arkansas State Police, Ohio BMV,
and the National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS), a department under the U.S. DOJ.

Trying to prove my ownership to Arkansas AMVC - I sent pictures of:
original 1965 Ohio title
my 2000 Ohio title
the trim and VIN tags under the glove box
the PROTECT-O-PLATE containing the VIN
the original order forms
and even pictures of the dirty car during 48 years in storage.

Eventually, their response was that they would contact "the other guy" and ASK him bring in more proof of his ownership.
They WOULD NOT send anybody to actually look at his VIN tag on the car or verify the number in any way. They had all the proof they needed as to the accuracy of the VIN because they had a copy of the BILL OF SALE.

At one point, I was able to actually talk to someone from the National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS).
Their phone number is not listed anywhere. I eventually got a number from the U.S. DOJ. The way I understand it is that
NMVTIS is just a series of computer links between states that choose to use it. Ohio and Arkansas both use this system. It does not have all title information in a central location. It's purpose is to eliminate fraud etc.
In my case, I was told, that the title issuing agent in Arkansas should have "pinged" the VIN number to make sure their wasn't one there already . The unsolved mystery is that Arkansas could "steal" my VIN and that OHIO couldn't "steal" it back just as easy

I then called the Arkansas State Police who were willing to visually check the car and its VIN.

Arkansas State Police did not find a car, just a pile of parts. They would not give me any further details except
that they saw a VIN containing 1 wrong character.

The sad part was that I called the Ohio BMV Title Information section 3 times trying to get some assistance.
I was always told that Arkansas had to cancel their bogus title first.
A few days later on call number 4, I asked the agent to please direct me to a superior, because I needed someone from Ohio to please help me because I wasn't making much progress on my own.

That supervisor turned out to be the person I had talked to on my first call there. After telling him my story a second time,
he gave me the phone number of a OHIO BMV INSPECTOR who then came out and inspected the car and filed a report.
Arkansas eventually canceled the fake title and after 19 days of "bickering", I was able to get my title restored and purchase license plates.

In Summary,

The Arkansas AMVC supervisor would not admit to any negligence, stressing that a VIN TAG "DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING" and that visually checking a VIN tag is not necessary under Arkansas law. A simple BILL OF SALE using my VIN number was all it took to steal my VIN. I guess they don't what Vehicle Identifaction Number means. I also wonder how she feels about Birth Certificates.

Once, I almost asked her for one of her credit card numbers - not the card - just the numbers. But, I "chickened out".

I mentioned to almost everyone I called about this matter that I was DOCUMENTING the resurrection of this car and this story would also be part of it.

Well, HERE IS THE FIRST INSTALLMENT ... .

Mike Smith

Wow - that is unbelievable!

Bluestripe67

Damn, what a mess. Glad you got it cleared up. Keep us posted with pics. Welcome to the CF Dennis

GTOguy

Great end to a real ordeal. I can't believe you actually prevailed. The guy who put in your VIN to title his junk pile of parts should be prosecuted for fraud, IMO. Scumbags like that are most often guilty of many other crimes, as well. Great story.

DansYellow66

Well, being a long time resident of Arkansas I can't really say I'm too surprised. They are pretty lax here on many things. That's good when you are trying to get a kit car registered, and we don't have to be bothered with vehicle inspections, emission tests etc. But, if you're in a pickle as in your case, it's not so good - as evidenced by your story. Hopefully you are over the hump on getting your title reinstated. Did a name ever come up as to who took out a title based on the VIN no. and fistful of receipts? It's kind of a small state.

6T7L71CPE

Dad Gum them ARKIES!!!

Glad you got it resolved!

Factoid

firstgear

Yikes!

68hemi

They have no idea what they are talking about. The original V.I.N. plate and matching title are the ONLY Federal legal identifiers of the vehicle. That is what GM did and it was recognized by ALL 50 states. End of story.

emccomas

Guys, this is EXACTLY what happened with 1953 Corvette #029 about 10 years ago. Google 1953 Corvette 029 to get the details.

I keep telling y'all that if you have an old car stuck in the barn, garage, back pasture, and you plan one day to put it back on the road, GET IT TITLED OR REGISTERED IN YOUR NAME NOW!

Once the VIN is registered in the NMVTIS, soneone else cannot come along and register that VIN as theirs.

The situation with Arkansas is not unique, Alabama does very similar things with cars older than 35 years. Current Alabama law does not title cars older than 35 years (it is a moving target).

A bill of sale is all I would need to register E53F001001 as MY VEHICLE in Alabama, assuming someone hasn't alreadu done so in another state.

All states are required to record all VIN related transactions with NMVTIS database as of I Jan 2010. Prior to I Jan 2010, many states voluntarily participated in the NMVTIS. Participation is now MANDATORY for all 50 states and DC.

And as the OP has learned, the states do not really care a bout these situations. The first person to register that VIN has legal ownership of that VIN until the issue gets resolved. This situation is not a criminal issue, it is a civil complaint.

Let me give you another example that is going to turn out to be REAL interesting one day. I know of a 1957 Corvette that had the body and frame separated (don't know why) many years ago.

The person with the body kept the VIN tag, and registered the car using that VIN number.

The person that ended up with the frame got a reproduction / replacement VIN tag made and registered the car using the same number.

Since these events happened in two different states, and long before NMVTIS came along, there are two 1957 Corvettes out there with the same VIN number.

At some point one of these cars will get sold, and all hell will brake loose.

And there was a pretty well known case involving a Ferrari many years ago where one person got the chassis, and another person got the body, and both claimed ownership of the VIN. The court in that case ruled that the chassis was the basis for a motor vehicle, and therefore the VIN belonged to the chassis.

So, all of you guys that are building resto-mods, and selling your original chassis, something to consider.

Factoid

Dan Hampton

elwood13

I feel your pain. I haven't updated my title thread yet but hope to have resolution soon. The New York cops inspected the car that had used my vin and found it to be incorrect but not stolen. Evidently it was up to the owner to correct the error and not the police. I finally got a hold of someone at the NY DMV (after 4 transfers and long hold times) and she was very helpful. I gave her the vin and she looked it up stating the owner had come in a week ago to correct the mistake. She said she will remove it from nmvitas when the actual paperwork comes to her office. She said it could be up to three weeks. She took my name and number, flagged the paperwork to go to her and said she would call me when it is done. Hopefully she will. I guess I got lucky that the owner wanted the correct paperwork for his car. If not, I would have had to go to court (which state, I'm not sure) or caved in and got a bonded title here. The last option was off the table. Glad you finally got yours straightened out. Now I will be waiting to see the pictures of your car.

Vette5311

Railroadman

Glad things worked out for you. You state "They would not give me any further details except that they saw a VIN containing 1 wrong character.". So the VIN they found was numerically different from yours and someone entered it into the computer incorrectly? Or maybe it was a fake VIN?

New York does not issue a title for any vehicle prior to 1973 (I think that's the cut-off). The registration is a "transferable" registration which you sign over when selling. The potential for headaches seems to be greater with such a system. Arkansas apparently is also ripe for confusion.

rrhoppy

I'm a newbee here. I'm attempting to show pictures as requested.
If successful, You can see pictures of as found, after 3 wash jobs and a recent picture of my "contraption" used to flush the block, heater core and reserve tank. The different license plates (1970 and 1971) tell a story. When the 1971 was placed on the rear in October 1970, the car was already waiting for a brake job that would never come. The owner could not get to the front of the car so the 1970 plate stayed there. Those same plates will stay there forever. When I drive it, I plan to hang my real plate over the rear with a holder car dealers use.

Notice fuel tank in front of car




before I added a clear hose to incorporate the reserve tank ALSO Does anybody know why somebody would have put that tin foil like wrapping on the upper radiator hose?? It must have been there before 1970. It doesn't leak.

I used a cordless drill with a rubber eraser wheel to hold against the water pump flange to spin the water pump.

rrhoppy

Dan, The only thing the state police would tell me was that it was in the north west region. I never found out where the VIN number was located that they saw - maybe the frame, glove box support, engine?? Also, I was unable to find out who was the person that created the BILL OF SALE.
And I was curious about the location of the 1 wrong number. If it was not one of the last 5 digits, it would have been an obvious fake. They did tell me that one thing he did wrong was one of the important parts came from Oklahoma and not Arkansas as required by law.

KENS78SILVERANNIV

You could have avoided this whole mess by paying a non-operational registration. That would have kept the VIN in the system forever.

TCracingCA

rrhoppy

You stated "Once the VIN is registered in the NMVTIS, soneone else cannot come along and register that VIN as theirs."

Just to clarify, I believe that is a mis-statement. I was told by both states,Ohio and Arkansas, that they have each been members of NMVTIS for about 10 years. I titled my car in 2000 here in Ohio. Somehow, the Arkansas car was given a title and my title was marked "inactive" in March 2017, just 17 months ago.