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I don’t even know where to begin on this subject. It is like watching ****. Ten times as many people do as will admit it with some of the most vocal being some of the worst offenders.
I don’t even know where to begin on this subject. It is like watching ****. Ten times as many people do as will admit it with some of the most vocal being some of the worst offenders.
given all the talk and hardcore stances people take I thought this would generate some chat! To think that they even put it in published writing!
I know, but that’s where we have evolved. I’ve restored over a dozen 1965-1968 Mustangs. Replacing fenders, quarter panels, trunk floors, drop offs, etc. However, when I had to replace the driver side inner fender panel, did I cross the line? That’s where the vin is stamped. How about the last one I did in 2008. I used a Dynacorn fastback replacement body and moved all the trim, etc. from a rusted out hulk. Did I really cross the line? My answer is no on both counts, but there are people on this site that believe I should be in lock up. Where does panel replacement cross the line?
I don’t even know where to begin on this subject. It is like watching ****. Ten times as many people do as will admit it with some of the most vocal being some of the worst offenders.
That is a great analogy!
Personally, I think what is described in the article is fine as long as it is not done with the intent to defraud. I mean, really. The VIN tag on my '64 is spot welded to the Z bar. If it falls off, does that mean I can't put it back? Do I have to junk the car? I don't think so.
I think they offered a great solution to a question and discussion that hits this forum quite frequently. I like what they did and would do the same if I was to go with an aftermarket column. Most DMV employees are not geniuses from my experience, but given a book that shows where to look, I would want to make all attempts to put the tag where the book says it should be. Doubt if they know whether it should be spot welded or riveted, but explaining a rivet might be a lot easier than explaining a new location.
BH
Last edited by Dreaming60’s; 08-30-2018 at 01:25 PM.
I know, but that’s where we have evolved. I’ve restored over a dozen 1965-1968 Mustangs. Replacing fenders, quarter panels, trunk floors, drop offs, etc. However, when I had to replace the driver side inner fender panel, did I cross the line? That’s where the vin is stamped. How about the last one I did in 2008. I used a Dynacorn fastback replacement body and moved all the trim, etc. from a rusted out hulk. Did I really cross the line? My answer is no on both counts, but there are people on this site that believe I should be in lock up. Where does panel replacement cross the line?
This is not directed at you but you ask in general if you alter, remove, replace, disguise or otherwise effect the VIN or secondary VIN on a vehicle and do not disclose that you can forever be liable, because fraud is seven years from discovery. If you disclose it you are forever protected because you disclosed it its the next guy down the line that is liable. but if you don't it rolls down hill until they find the offender.
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-‘19-'20-'21-'22-'23-'24
I don't get the problem. They apparently have legal ownership of the car. It was gutted for drag use and they are putting it back to original. They are publishing what they are doing so there certainly is no attempt to defraud and claim it's factory original. How is putting a reproduction VIN plate on any different from a repro fender emblem or console or bumper?
I don't get the problem. They apparently have legal ownership of the car. It was gutted for drag use and they are putting it back to original. They are publishing what they are doing so there certainly is no attempt to defraud and claim it's factory original. How is putting a reproduction VIN plate on any different from a repro fender emblem or console or bumper?
I have seen two cars with the same VIN in my lifetime. It happens, and sometimes with no real intent to defraud. Car engine and car frame get separated somehow. One car is built around the engine VIN and the other car is built around the frame VIN. Different states. But one day they show up together at a National Car Event.
This can also occur from straight out fraud.
As Roy states, a person needs to be careful and mindful of the law.
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-‘19-'20-'21-'22-'23-'24
I am aware of the issue with those '53's and agree the possibility for problems exists. But I'm sure far more cars have gone through a legitimate restoration and needed a tag than were products of shady dealing. People have been conned by replacement engines too for that matter.
I am aware of the issue with those '53's and agree the possibility for problems exists. But I'm sure far more cars have gone through a legitimate restoration and needed a tag than were products of shady dealing. People have been conned by replacement engines too for that matter.
I think what everyone is missing here is that each state has their own rules (actually, "laws") for such things, not to mention what the Feds would say. Most governmental agencies take a hard-line stance regarding any sort of work done involving a VIN,, especially by someone who is not a licensed person, whether its a stamp, VIN plate or anything else. Regardless of the innocent restoration intent by an owner, a regulatory agency can often become very unreasonable and unpleasant and start using words like "fraud," "counterfeit" ""seize" and worst of all,"felon."
I've worked on a lot of cases like this, involving cars, parts and documents. Please do not think you understand your specific situation until you make contact with YOUR state's DMV and specifically ask questions, even if it's "for a friend."
08-30-2018, 12:41 PM
Lots of talk about VIN’s, Vette Magazine
