Muncie 4 spd rebuild advice
11-09-2018, 10:21 AM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Muncie 4 spd rebuild advice
A good friend that owns a 65 convertible & is having a problem with the Muncie 4 spd. It seems he had driven it low on oil as I noticed a leak at the rear case gasket, now it is unable to shift. Any tranny shops that are reputable either in West palm beach area or Orlando FL that knows these tranny's. He called a place ,Vic's transmission, & was told $1,200., unseen, for a rebuild & that with the tranny already out of car, He was also told that parts are hard to come by. I told him to pull out the tranny as the car is up on a lift in his storage facility. Any removal tips & known shops that are reputable would be appreciated
11-09-2018, 10:42 AM
#2
Race Director
A good friend that owns a 65 convertible & is having a problem with the Muncie 4 spd. It seems he had driven it low on oil as I noticed a leak at the rear case gasket, now it is unable to shift. Any tranny shops that are reputable either in West palm beach area or Orlando FL that knows these tranny's. He called a place ,Vic's transmission, & was told $1,200., unseen, for a rebuild & that with the tranny already out of car, He was also told that parts are hard to come by. I told him to pull out the tranny as the car is up on a lift in his storage facility. Any removal tips & known shops that are reputable would be appreciated
11-09-2018, 10:45 AM
#3
Race Director
A good friend that owns a 65 convertible & is having a problem with the Muncie 4 spd. It seems he had driven it low on oil as I noticed a leak at the rear case gasket, now it is unable to shift. Any tranny shops that are reputable either in West palm beach area or Orlando FL that knows these tranny's. He called a place ,Vic's transmission, & was told $1,200., unseen, for a rebuild & that with the tranny already out of car, He was also told that parts are hard to come by. I told him to pull out the tranny as the car is up on a lift in his storage facility. Any removal tips & known shops that are reputable would be appreciated
Do some searches on removal - there are some things to know. Use dowels in the upper bolt holes to help guide and support the transmission. After the transmission is slid as far back over the crossmember as it will go, the rear of the engine needs to be dropped down (remove ignition shielding, distrib cap and tach cable first) so the nose of the input can be maneuvered out of the bellhousing register. This requires you come up with a means to support the engine that allows some up & down adjustment. I prefer to remove the yoke first and use a bag tied around the tail housing in case any fluid leaks a little. If you can find a plug for that purpose that's even better. The shifter has to come out first and from below. The driveshaft has to be removed at the rear diff yoke and U-joint straps are a bit of a pain to access. It helps to roll the car back and forth on the lift to rotate the bolts around for access.
Here is my own thread from a few years ago when I wanted to see if removal could be done very easily with a transmission jack verses the usual method of just manhandling it (Muncie weights about 75 to 80 lbs.)
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post-lift.html
I forgot to mention that if the car has standard undercar exhaust that adds a couple steps because the forward pipes have to be removed to provide clearance.
Mention of buying a new AutoGear is a point of consideration if this is not an all original matching numbers car. You can buy one for somewhere around $2,000 maybe a little more. I built my own with a new case and gears 2 years ago for around $1,300 I think, providing all my own labor. You may also be able to do some sort of exchange or simply just ship if off to D&L or Pauls for a professional rebuild and still beat $1,200.
http://www.5speeds.com/
http://www.dandltransmission.com/
Last edited by DansYellow66; 11-09-2018 at 10:54 AM.
11-09-2018, 11:14 AM
#4
Team Owner
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
Posts: 26,118
Received 1,843 Likes
on
1,398 Posts
I believe I would just search out a used replacement for $5-600. A transmission run dry to the point it won't shift may have a lot of problems.
11-09-2018, 11:58 AM
#5
Race Director
Member Since: Apr 2015
Location: Fresno California
Posts: 17,505
Received 3,443 Likes
on
2,113 Posts
I agree. A normal rebuild, 1200 would be about right, where I am. A run-dry, heat damaged trans that won't shift? I wouldn't even give a quote until I got it apart. But i can say, $1200 is probably not nearly enough. I second/third the motion of replacing the unit. And after that, paying attention to the maintenance on the car.
11-09-2018, 01:27 PM
#6
Team Owner
I'd have to ask around but I'm sure Dewey Hendricks of Just Vettes in Apopka would give your pal an assessment or at least know a good rebuilder... (Four-Oh-Seven) 88Four-715Five
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 11-09-2018 at 01:35 PM.
11-09-2018, 02:20 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2009
Location: "You may all go to Hell- and I will go to Texas- Davy Crockett
Posts: 9,151
Received 474 Likes
on
337 Posts
St. Jude Donor '12
Unless you want to modify your crossmember to be removable and chop up your console, the Autogear is not a bolt in replacement for a Muncie. The Case is about 5/8" thicker at the front, and the tailhousing mounting is a little different. I wish it wasn't, I would love to run one, but I'm not cutting up my 63 console.
11-09-2018, 02:32 PM
#8
Race Director
Unless you want to modify your crossmember to be removable and chop up your console, the Autogear is not a bolt in replacement for a Muncie. The Case is about 5/8" thicker at the front, and the tailhousing mounting is a little different. I wish it wasn't, I would love to run one, but I'm not cutting up my 63 console.
11-09-2018, 02:44 PM
#9
Race Director
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Mustang OK
Posts: 13,852
Received 3,772 Likes
on
1,674 Posts
2023 C1 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2015 C1 of the Year Finalist
I understand and I agree with most of the comments above.
I've been rebuilding 4spds (MOSTLY Muncies) for over 50yrs.
Two comments that I would add:
FIRST, If this is the original Muncie to the car, I would want to save it (even if the owner does not care about numbers).
SECOND, If the decision is made to rebuild it, DO NOT go to just a regular transmission shop. Locate a person who is intimately familiar with Muncies.There are (or can be) several small details to be addressed when rebuilding a Muncie, and a lot of run of the mill transmission shops just are not completely aware of some things to look at closely.
I've been rebuilding 4spds (MOSTLY Muncies) for over 50yrs.
Two comments that I would add:
FIRST, If this is the original Muncie to the car, I would want to save it (even if the owner does not care about numbers).
SECOND, If the decision is made to rebuild it, DO NOT go to just a regular transmission shop. Locate a person who is intimately familiar with Muncies.There are (or can be) several small details to be addressed when rebuilding a Muncie, and a lot of run of the mill transmission shops just are not completely aware of some things to look at closely.
11-09-2018, 10:44 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2008
Location: Lake Minnetonka, Mn
Posts: 5,071
Received 1,728 Likes
on
810 Posts
2018 C1 of Year Finalist
Mike is right. You can buy them all day long for $500. A dry tranny could have a multitude of problem, all of which could cost three times a what a used unit would cost. If you threw in a master rebuild kit just to be sure on a used unit, you would be in at around $1,000. The parts, unlike what you were told, are plentiful. Larry at D & L Transmissions can hook you up on that end. These units are pretty easy to rebuild. You might want to give it a try.
11-10-2018, 09:43 AM
#12
Team Owner
The thing was low on fluid for Cripe’s sake. It doesn’t mean it’s grenaded. This guy should get it checked out before buying some unknown piece and maybe have worse problems.
Parts swapping without a proper diagnosis is foolhardy.
Parts swapping without a proper diagnosis is foolhardy.
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 11-10-2018 at 10:15 AM.
11-10-2018, 10:59 AM
#13
Safety Car
Definitely won’t know till it’s out and apart. But one run dry is likely toast except for the case and a handful of parts. If I were looking for used, I would not consider one run dry for purchase. A used unit @ $1000 should be ready to install, but a used unit under $500 should need disassembly and checking.
11-10-2018, 01:11 PM
#14
Race Director
Member Since: Apr 2015
Location: Fresno California
Posts: 17,505
Received 3,443 Likes
on
2,113 Posts
Definitely won’t know till it’s out and apart. But one run dry is likely toast except for the case and a handful of parts. If I were looking for used, I would not consider one run dry for purchase. A used unit @ $1000 should be ready to install, but a used unit under $500 should need disassembly and checking.
11-10-2018, 03:36 PM
#15
Instructor
Quite a few valid opinions on this problem. I agree with Frankie on waiting to see what is damaged before spending money on anything. If the transmission were to require a complete replacement there are many reputable and knowledgeable re-builders available that are familiar with the Muncie transmission. IF the trans is "toast", and having numbers matching case is not an issue, I would replace it with a 1966 or newer Muncie as they have the 1" counter gear shaft, verses the 7/8" counter gear shaft used on 1965 and prior Muncies'.
Regards,
Chuck
Regards,
Chuck
11-10-2018, 04:20 PM
#16
Team Owner
The OP could also contact Wes Pullen (google him) in Winter Garden - he has a Muncie guy; who rebuilt my 67 Chevelle Muncie and did a stellar job..
11-10-2018, 06:55 PM
#17
Safety Car
I've seen units for $600 that were ready to install, and units for $1000 that were never going to be ready to install, anywhere. It's all subjective. The guy needs to do what DZ suggested, IMO.....take it to a reputable Muncie guy for diagnosis and go from there. Price on used units is not always an accurate indicator of their condition!!
True. I should have stated used “worth” $1000 vs used “worth” $500.
11-11-2018, 08:42 PM
#18
If your interested in doing it yourself, I have a book I can sell you for 30 bucks shipped that you can use to rebuild it yourself.
Its very detailed and and will have you rebuilt in a day or two with home tools.
or you can ship it to Vegas and I’ll take a stab at it.
Ive rebuilt literately hundreds of Muncie four speeds.
Its very detailed and and will have you rebuilt in a day or two with home tools.
or you can ship it to Vegas and I’ll take a stab at it.
Ive rebuilt literately hundreds of Muncie four speeds.
11-12-2018, 07:18 AM
#19
Team Owner
You would need a significant leak to run a Muncie dry, I would think before that happened you would know you had a leak that needs attention or more gear oil. The shifting problem could be unrelated to the oil leak, if owner is sure the shifting problem in internal and not external than pull the transmission. I would plan on rebuilding what you have.
11-12-2018, 07:58 AM
#20
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Watkinsville, GA and Glen Cove, NY
Posts: 5,789
Received 855 Likes
on
626 Posts
Paul Cangiolosi (5speeds.com) in Tequesta as Dan mentioned above. He is a Muncie guru and Autogear dealer. I have dealt with him at least twice and is a great guy and there isn’t a more knowledgeable guy on manual transmissions. (561-743-5600). He has a bunch of Muncie videos on YouTube. Tell him Bill Van Orman sent you.
Bill
Bill
Last edited by 69ttop502; 11-12-2018 at 08:00 AM.