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Buying a car or replacing the frame Beware!

Old 12-11-2018, 01:02 PM
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Roger Walling
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Default Buying a car or replacing the frame Beware!

Below is a link to a 17 min. youtube that describes "cloned" titles and the law on stolen cars. He is a lawyer in Michigan and it is quite helpful if wondering about VIN's.

It is very important that your frame # matches the VIN on the title.
This goes good with posts on 12-08-2018, 11:50 AM
About "Out with the old frame in with the new".


Last edited by Roger Walling; 12-11-2018 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:02 PM
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I read about this government agency that provides states with instant checks on all new car registries, with any duplicate or stolen vehicles with the same vin number, in any other state.
The National Motor Vehicle Title Information System.

https://www.vehiclehistory.gov/nmvtis_states.html
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:06 PM
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Painful to watch....after 8 minutes in and the guy still hadn't gotten to the hard facts of the case instead of digressing constantly; I bailed...
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink View Post
Painful to watch....after 8 minutes in and the guy still hadn't gotten to the hard facts of the case instead of digressing constantly; I bailed...
I had trouble getting past the 'coffee pot heats water' part.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:17 PM
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Didn't watch but anybody who has been on this forum for any length of time knows the potential headaches involved. I presume (hope) those buying know where to look, and those selling a frame would scuff out their stamping.
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Old 12-11-2018, 04:18 PM
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My frame is badly rusted and I have a replacement frame I purchased for replacement parts to fix it. I think I will make sure the original frame stamp if not too badly rusted remains in the final assembly to avoid this issue.
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Wayne88 View Post
I had trouble getting past the 'coffee pot heats water' part.
Skip the first 1/2 and get down to the real stuff. It is worth it.
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:39 PM
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I haven't watched the video but if youve read any of my posts on this topic I always err on the side of caution. A very well know reseller of used vettes and pro mods had a car I was interested in but the vin was pop riveted on the column. I told him I would come look at it 900 miles away if he verified the vin matched the frame. He wasn't interested and didn't care. I took a pass. I had considered selling my frame but now the only way I would would be to remove the vin and keep it. The little my frame would bring isn't worth any heart ache.
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink View Post
Painful to watch....after 8 minutes in and the guy still hadn't gotten to the hard facts of the case instead of digressing constantly; I bailed...
I only watched about 30 seconds, and decided that the guy was an "ambulance chaser" lawyer.......selling books !!! Good luck to him, I'm not buying.
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Walling View Post
Skip the first 1/2 and get down to the real stuff. It is worth it.
I respectfully disagree. This is Huff Post stuff. If you're not smart enough to buy a car on your own, and you rely on guys like this to tell you that it's ok, you probably shouldn't buy a car. He's selling books (autographed), on YOU tube. Check the CARFAX........WTF???

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Old 12-11-2018, 07:40 PM
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I have to agree with MR. Coletta. And I live in Michigan!!
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Old 12-11-2018, 09:38 PM
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I made to about the 10 second mark where he identified himself as an attorney. At that point, anything more is just a bunch of B.S. Like the old saying " What's the difference between an attorney and a catfish? One is a scum eating bottom feeder, the other is a fish."
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Old 12-11-2018, 09:51 PM
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I know that there are a lot of C2s out there with a used frame that has a different VIN stamped on it. Many of these vehicles had the frame replaced before the current owner bought the car. I personally have never had any luck reading the numbers stamped on the frame with the body still on. You can even buy a new frame. I wonder if the supplier offers a VIN stamp to match the car.
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Old 12-12-2018, 09:49 AM
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Due to the many negative thoughts presented here, I am almost sorry that I posted this video.
It is true that there is a lot of small talk and book selling, but that is the price that one must pay for getting a professional to give you a little very important information.
I once took a course on salesmanship that took up several nights. Most of it was small talk and obvious things that everybody knew. But, at the end of it, the instructor said two sentences that I learned, that was worth the entire time spent.

The same is with this video, the last 1/3 is where the info is, those that did not see it missed it. Thue, he likes to talk, but there is value in listening for those few words that could save you a lot of grief.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Walling View Post
Due to the many negative thoughts presented here, I am almost sorry that I posted this video.
It is true that there is a lot of small talk and book selling, but that is the price that one must pay for getting a professional to give you a little very important information.
I once took a course on salesmanship that took up several nights. Most of it was small talk and obvious things that everybody knew. But, at the end of it, the instructor said two sentences that I learned, that was worth the entire time spent.

The same is with this video, the last 1/3 is where the info is, those that did not see it missed it. Thue, he likes to talk, but there is value in listening for those few words that could save you a lot of grief.
Roger, don't be sorry. Read my post #10 above. No small talk, no bs, just right to the point.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:45 AM
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Every contribution to this forum has value. How people perceive it and what they take from it varies widely, however, if even only one person benefits it was worth it.

Personaly, I watched it from my hotel room in NYC and fell asleep before the good part (I think the bastard hypnotized me). I got a lot out of the comments and observations made by other posters, both intended messages and unintended, so thanks for posting, Roger.
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:14 PM
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I don't doubt a person could buy a new frame with the original VIN stamped in it, why not they re-stamp engines, sell "reproduction" junk with original date codes, various "replacement" tags for carbs, distributors and etc all for the purpose of convincing a judge that something is original. Deception is deception no matter what you it call, some call it restoration, some call it fraud.

Bill
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:45 PM
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The only thing missing was the sport coat with the neon question marks on it while providing tax advice. Huckster would be overrating this gas bag.

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Old 12-12-2018, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Pilon View Post
I don't doubt a person could buy a new frame with the original VIN stamped in it, why not they re-stamp engines, sell "reproduction" junk with original date codes, various "replacement" tags for carbs, distributors and etc all for the purpose of convincing a judge that something is original. Deception is deception no matter what you it call, some call it restoration, some call it fraud.

Bill
So, according to the Lawyer you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. If the cops check and there is no VIN on the frame what happens then? If it is a case of cya then I would go ahead and have it stamped.
In the case of re-stamping an engine many times it is done to deceive and make the car something it isn't. In the case of a frame it is for structure rigidity. JMO
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Old 12-12-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Pilon View Post
I don't doubt a person could buy a new frame with the original VIN stamped in it, why not they re-stamp engines, sell "reproduction" junk with original date codes, various "replacement" tags for carbs, distributors and etc all for the purpose of convincing a judge that something is original. Deception is deception no matter what you it call, some call it restoration, some call it fraud.

Bill
I am not sure what you are trying to convey?
Everybody is making a bigger issue out of this than necessary.
Different states have different laws regarding this and the federal law has it's own take on it. The individual states can make a law stronger but not less effective than the fed. laws intent.
The only time this frame # would be an issue is if theft was suspected which was the intent of having this hidden partial V.I.N. in the first place. If you have a clean clear title with matching V.I.N. on the car and title it should never be an issue.
If an old car has a rusted frame and needs a new one that is not a big deal to simple buy one used or new to replace it. If you are concerned about it call your local DMV to find out the correct procedure.
Vette Products in Michigan makes correct replacement frames and if it is a concern to you contact them and see if they offer the frames with the partial V.I.N.
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