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Really? I don't see that in ads for Buick GS or even Chevelle. I understand it is a consideration but I don't think it dooms other cars to reduced-price purgatory as it does on these plastic banana cars atop Bel-Air platforms. This is a funky Corvette collector trait and from where it originates, who knows. It wouldn't be any stranger to say that I have my numbers matching 56 year old oil burner/boiler heating my home.
I'm not making a judgement, just an observation. Everyone is entitled to their proclivities. Yet I might further observe that the Corvette collector universe would be trolled less by the unscrupulous were original motor or numbers matching status to have less value.
Dan
go look at prices of born with engine 66 L79 Chevy II vs NOM. Then look at any 65-71 Chevelle SS 396 or 70-71 454 car. You will find a price difference Not so much on base engine cars but on L78 LS5 and LS6 cars. Then go look at Camaros. Point is any “fun” car that had a performance engine that was prone to failur and hot rodding there price depends on engine
This car was NOT judged by Bloomington Gold Corvettes, and is NOT Bloomington Gold Certified. A Director from Bloomington Gold wrote a letter stating that the car had a numbers matching rebuilt motor. It is his belief that the motor was the original motor, but NOT a verification from Bloomington Gold Corvettes. Since the motor has been rebuilt and said to have been decked, the original 'fingerprint' of the engine is no longer in place and Bloomington Gold Corvettes would not certify such a car as having the original engine. It is not normal practice to have such a letter sent from Bloomington Gold Corvettes.
I have spoken with Matt from Harwood Motors and he will be adding more clarification to the car's description to emphasize that it has a 'numbers matching engine'. He was very knowledgeable of the Corvette industry and does not want to mislead persons to thinking the car has been Bloomington Gold Certified.
Guy,
Thanks for that clarification. Keeping the BGC name credible is certainly important and any misuse of that or blurry confirmations can muddy the waters pretty quickly.
Perhaps what has most people bristling about this pseudo-confirmation is Mr. Locke's verbiage. His letter states that it's point is to "confirm" the authenticity of the car's engine. A strong term indeed when used in conjunction with BGC letterhead. The letter should have stated that this was only Mr. Locke's "opinion".
Regards, Greg
I'm wondering when an engine rebuild 'requires' decking the block? Seems like the block would need to be pretty screwed up to 'require' decking unless you are blueprinting the eng, and even then...???
Guy,
Thanks for that clarification. Keeping the BGC name credible is certainly important and any misuse of that or blurry confirmations can muddy the waters pretty quickly.
Perhaps what has most people bristling about this pseudo-confirmation is Mr. Locke's verbiage. His letter states that it's point is to "confirm" the authenticity of the car's engine. A strong term indeed when used in conjunction with BGC letterhead. The letter should have stated that this was only Mr. Locke's "opinion".
Regards, Greg
Another thing that bothers me about this is, it looks like he is saying he witnessed the stamp before decking. I can't imagine a BG or other Corvette official not warning against decking a block.
Another thing that bothers me about this is, it looks like he is saying he witnessed the stamp before decking. I can't imagine a BG or other Corvette official not warning against decking a block.
The only thing that I can think of maybe before the engine rebuild in 2015 the car had been judged at Bloomington and the pad had been judged at that time.
I have known Bill Locke for over 40 years. He is a big name in both the Corvette and the Ferrari collector car worlds.
He has been the event director at Bloomington Gold for decades.
Knowing Bill like I do, my "guess" is that he has knowledge of the engine in this car PRIOR to the rebuild. I might even go a bit further and say that Bill is personally aware of what was on the engine pad prior to it being decked.
I cannot even begin to guess how Bill Locke knows what he knows about this car, but his knowledge of any Corvette would not surprise me.
And yes, some engines do need to be decked during a rebuild. It isn't very often, and I am sure that Bill would have recommended against it unless there was no option (it HAD to be done) or he was not aware that it was being done until after the fact.
The paper is worthless to a collector that wants a matching numbers engine. The re-stamp is a sight to behold (and I don't mean that is a good way).
FYI: Bill Locke at one time owned the Harley Earl 1963 Corvette Styling car. It was fascinating.
What am I missing? The Bloomington Gold guy is stating HE personally inspected the block BEFORE it was decked. And he states the 'right' numbers were there at that time. I mean I don't know the guy but if the letter is real and I'd bet it is, easy enough to check up on...it would be good enough for me.
What am I missing? The Bloomington Gold guy is stating HE personally inspected the block BEFORE it was decked. And he states the 'right' numbers were there at that time. I mean I don't know the guy but if the letter is real and I'd bet it is, easy enough to check up on...it would be good enough for me.
Not to drag this out too much.... but 'easy to check up on' would stop when Mr. Locke is no longer with us (may he outlive us all).
What am I missing? The Bloomington Gold guy is stating HE personally inspected the block BEFORE it was decked. And he states the 'right' numbers were there at that time. I mean I don't know the guy but if the letter is real and I'd bet it is, easy enough to check up on...it would be good enough for me.
No guarantee its the same motor as in the car now though, that proof was milled off. Its like buying car that once won Top Flight. No guarantee its still Top Flight.
Doug
No guarantee its the same motor as in the car now though, that proof was milled off. Its like buying car that once won Top Flight. No guarantee its still Top Flight.
Doug
Who cares? obviously every casting number and date is correct, [ I mean you gotta check 'em but who would be so stupid to restamp the WRONG block]. As far as the gentleman passing into the big swap meet in the sky. The guy is a Bloomington official, evidently well known. Letter is on Bloomington gold letterhead. WTH I'm sure there is a record of it with Bloomington, If not GET it recorded with Bloomington. This is a L79 not an L88...Not EVERYBODY is a scumbag...
Last edited by karkrafter; 12-12-2018 at 06:08 PM.
Who cares? obviously every casting number and date is correct, [ I mean you gotta check 'em but who would be so stupid to restamp the WRONG block]. As far as the gentleman passing into the big swap meet in the sky. The guy is a Bloomington official, evidently well known. Letter is on Bloomington gold letterhead. WTH I'm sure there is a record of it with Bloomington, If not GET it recorded with Bloomington. This is a L79 not an L88...Not EVERYBODY is a scumbag...
As someone indicated, the letter written by Locke is probably worthless to any buyer. The smart thing would have been to take a pic of the original undecked block, and left it blank after decking. The restamp with the letter just totally muddies the water.
Last edited by Dan Hampton; 12-12-2018 at 06:31 PM.
The real smart thing to do would have been to stop the milling machine after the head surface was decked and before it hits the pad. Simple.
I have done exactly this in the past. Most machine shops offer this service without question. I don't think there is a machinist out there today that doesn't understand the value of original numbers.
They are at the center of the muscle car engine world and will do what ever a customer asks in this regard. Nowadays they just don't mill numbers off by mistake.
"oops, I machined your original numbers off without thinking, so the hit your car will take in value is more than the cost of the rebuild"
Who would risk that liability?
Not trying to drag this out but I am actually really confused now. The car is not in the Bloomington records as being judged so that is important and settles that issue; however, I am assuming the letter does exist in the files since it is on official letterhead paper and signed by a high-level and very knowledgeable and very experienced Bloomington official. If it is not an official bloomington document then does that mean it is worthless and/or bogus? To me, the situation has potentially tainted the potential sale value of this car. Mr. Locke did this innocently, ignorantly or maliciously. Personally, I could care less about the stamp pad or authenticity of the motor circumstances because the letter and stamping seemed rather dubious and contrived from the very beginning to me. I certainly hope everyone has not over devalued this very nice appearing unauthenticated and questionable motor Corvette.
12-12-2018, 06:01 AM
