Proof of original motor?
12-12-2018, 09:14 PM
#41
Le Mans Master
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2024 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Modified
2024 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2023 C7 of the Year Winner - Modified
This car was NOT judged by Bloomington Gold Corvettes, and is NOT Bloomington Gold Certified. A Director from Bloomington Gold wrote a letter stating that the car had a numbers matching rebuilt motor. It is his belief that the motor was the original motor, but NOT a verification from Bloomington Gold Corvettes. Since the motor has been rebuilt and said to have been decked, the original 'fingerprint' of the engine is no longer in place and Bloomington Gold Corvettes would not certify such a car as having the original engine. It is not normal practice to have such a letter sent from Bloomington Gold Corvettes.
I have spoken with Matt from Harwood Motors and he will be adding more clarification to the car's description to emphasize that it has a 'numbers matching engine'. He was very knowledgeable of the Corvette industry and does not want to mislead persons to thinking the car has been Bloomington Gold Certified.
Guy Larsen
President Bloomington Gold Corvettes
I have spoken with Matt from Harwood Motors and he will be adding more clarification to the car's description to emphasize that it has a 'numbers matching engine'. He was very knowledgeable of the Corvette industry and does not want to mislead persons to thinking the car has been Bloomington Gold Certified.
Guy Larsen
President Bloomington Gold Corvettes
12-12-2018, 09:52 PM
#42
Race Director
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Guy, I find this troubling for your organization. Your letterhead was used in what appears to be an inappropriate way. Your letterhead should be reserved for official business. In any regulated business this would be a breach of compliance. I won’t go so far as to say it is a misrepresentation, but as the president, you should be concerned.
I am sure the president of the organization cringed when he discovered this but the horse is out of the barn now. Probably some smooth talking owner talked the author into it without the author thinking of the consequences. The letter mean nothing since the engine could be anything in the car today. As said previously the stamping never should have been milled off. Who know how that mistake took place. Then to make matters worse they let a 3 year old stamp the fresh pad. 
12-12-2018, 09:57 PM
#43
Melting Slicks
What difference, at this point.... does it make? (where have we heard that before?) Either way, it no longer has it's original stamp pad characters so the block being original or not is not important. It means nothing.
Last edited by Critter1; 12-12-2018 at 10:11 PM.
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kenba (12-13-2018)
12-13-2018, 10:24 AM
#44
Safety Car
Pointing at a document and hand waving only goes so far.
12-13-2018, 10:27 AM
#45
Safety Car
The real smart thing to do would have been to stop the milling machine after the head surface was decked and before it hits the pad. Simple.
I have done exactly this in the past. Most machine shops offer this service without question. I don't think there is a machinist out there today that doesn't understand the value of original numbers.
They are at the center of the muscle car engine world and will do what ever a customer asks in this regard. Nowadays they just don't mill numbers off by mistake.
"oops, I machined your original numbers off without thinking, so the hit your car will take in value is more than the cost of the rebuild"
Who would risk that liability?
I have done exactly this in the past. Most machine shops offer this service without question. I don't think there is a machinist out there today that doesn't understand the value of original numbers.
They are at the center of the muscle car engine world and will do what ever a customer asks in this regard. Nowadays they just don't mill numbers off by mistake.
"oops, I machined your original numbers off without thinking, so the hit your car will take in value is more than the cost of the rebuild"
Who would risk that liability?
This just raises the fishyness meter to near the top of the scale. A 10K rebuild to boot.
12-13-2018, 11:21 AM
#46
Melting Slicks
You may have misunderstood what I said. In my opinion, having the original block without it's original stamp characters is no more valuable than having any non original re-stamped block.
12-13-2018, 12:11 PM
#48
Safety Car
There are ways to document #s on a block that is going to be decked, take before pics, etc; but in lieu of post #39 it's all moot.
Last edited by colo63sw; 12-13-2018 at 12:12 PM.
12-13-2018, 12:18 PM
#49
Safety Car
People forge things, including documents. Once Bill has gone to heaven; unless there is all kinds of evidence that the doc is factual, the doc won't be worth much. Some people think it is worth 0 now.
12-13-2018, 12:34 PM
#50
Burning Brakes
Wow a lot of serious heart burn, is it or isn't it. If I had a chance to look at the car I would walk around it a few times then climb in my Hemi/Vette and drive off with a smile on my face.
12-13-2018, 01:50 PM
#51
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Guy, I find this troubling for your organization. Your letterhead was used in what appears to be an inappropriate way. Your letterhead should be reserved for official business. In any regulated business this would be a breach of compliance. I won’t go so far as to say it is a misrepresentation, but as the president, you should be concerned.
This is not a Bloomington Gold document. This is a personal note by a person who identified himself as a Bloomington Gold Director.
12-13-2018, 02:05 PM
#52
Just another Corvette guy
Vb6369,
Not to beat this thing to death, but the glaring omission in his letter is the word "opinion" that you used in your post. Instead, he chose the word "confirm". And using the BGC letter head lends an air of pseudo-certification.
Not to beat this thing to death, but the glaring omission in his letter is the word "opinion" that you used in your post. Instead, he chose the word "confirm". And using the BGC letter head lends an air of pseudo-certification.
12-13-2018, 02:10 PM
#53
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I don’t see what Bill did that was wrong. the letter does not indicate Bloomington Gold as an organization certified or stated anything. Bill has every right to identify himself as a current or former Bloomington Gold Director as a support to his credentials and opinion. And, all he has done here is provide personal knowledge that this motor did in fact have, in his opinion, original matching numbers prior to the owner’s decision to risk obliteration of them during a decking at rebuild.
This is not a Bloomington Gold document. This is a personal note by a person who identified himself as a Bloomington Gold Director.
12-13-2018, 02:17 PM
#54
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Steve, that’s exactly the point. It’s a personal letter written on official letterhead. I would have no issue if it was a personal letter written on his personal letterhead and in the body of the letter he identified himself as a BG judge. The fact that he chose to write a personal letter using official letterhead brings many questions to mind. Was he trying to add credibility by using official letterhead or was it a simple mistake? If I write you a letter using the official letterhead of the major insurance company I work for and suggest that in my personal opinion, your car is a stolen vehicle, it would carry significant weight. If an IRS agent...anyway, you get the point. It is in poor form and in some industries illegal to use official letterhead for a personal matter. It also degrades the credibility of BG as you see a perfect example here in this thread. Credible organizations that want to stay that way protect their brand and image as if it was gold no matter how small the deviation.
with this 100%
12-13-2018, 03:02 PM
#55
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As for the "confirmation" of the numbers before the rebuild, why didn't someone take photos? That doesn't make sense.
Oh well. I know the engine in my car was a matching number engine....once. I'm not sure what it matched, but it sure matched something.....
12-13-2018, 03:27 PM
#56
Pro
Here's my 2 cents. With only 9787 miles on it, why would the engine need to be decked on rebuild?
12-13-2018, 03:36 PM
#57
Race Director
12-13-2018, 03:56 PM
#58
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I don’t see what Bill did that was wrong. the letter does not indicate Bloomington Gold as an organization certified or stated anything. Bill has every right to identify himself as a current or former Bloomington Gold Director as a support to his credentials and opinion. And, all he has done here is provide personal knowledge that this motor did in fact have, in his opinion, original matching numbers prior to the owner’s decision to risk obliteration of them during a decking at rebuild.
This is not a Bloomington Gold document. This is a personal note by a person who identified himself as a Bloomington Gold Director.
12-13-2018, 04:20 PM
#59
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St. Jude Donor '05
What am I missing? The Bloomington Gold guy is stating HE personally inspected the block BEFORE it was decked. And he states the 'right' numbers were there at that time. I mean I don't know the guy but if the letter is real and I'd bet it is, easy enough to check up on...it would be good enough for me.
Someone else here recently photo'd or videod his to verify it was the original and he got a bunch of crap. Why waste someones time if they prove it if thats what ones really after?
I can hear a gear reduction starter and definitely a different cam, does sound well built. Decking a block is alll part of doing it right
Last edited by cv67; 12-13-2018 at 04:26 PM.
12-13-2018, 05:52 PM
#60
Just another Corvette guy
cuisinartvette,
Are you and karkrafter in possession of some information that hasn't been shared here? If so, can you please share it with us and maybe that will put this baby to bed.
Because nowhere in the posted letter does Mr. Locke state that "HE personally inspected the block BEFORE it was decked. And he states the 'right' numbers were there at that time."
Greg
Are you and karkrafter in possession of some information that hasn't been shared here? If so, can you please share it with us and maybe that will put this baby to bed.
Because nowhere in the posted letter does Mr. Locke state that "HE personally inspected the block BEFORE it was decked. And he states the 'right' numbers were there at that time."
Greg