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I used to sell Moog Ball Joints to one of the Specialty A Arm manufacturers that sells to high end restoration shops. They asked me for a much better price because the Chinese copy of the Moog part was only 40% the cost of the Moog Piece.
We told them our price is what it is and we are not Chinese manufactured. They went with the Chinese knock off. Moog Tested the Chinese copy of the part. It lasted less than 1/5 the life of a Moog Ball Joint. Less THAN 1/5!!!!!! The Specialty company did not care and changed to the imported part.
In most car restorations they are driven very few miles so the quality of the cheap Chinese part never shows up. You get what you PAY for.
Federal-Moguls Legal department said this information could not be shared unless they hired 3 independent agencies to test the product and verify the test results.
Guess what, Moog hired the 3 independent labs to test the parts and now they advertise the Moog Part will exceed the life of the import part by 5X. The external tests all verified the Moog Test.
The bad news is most parts are never tested, there are cheap imitation parts flooding our industry and it is so tempting to buy them because the prices are so low.
I am glad Moog went to the bank and financed the 3 independent tests so they could legally advertise what they found but in reality, in most cases the buyer is the one testing the product and the information does not get out so the cheap copies are flooding the market.
For Christ sakes, a Ball Joint is very hard, labor intensive to replace. Why risk all that labor to save $10 on the part. I don't get it.
I have certain brands that I don't budge from Moog being the ball joint brand. I don't care how much they cost I just want Moog. Having said that we were just talking about them this week and I said they are probably all Chinese made today anyway. I'm even worse on engine parts. I just bought the parts to redo my LS1. I try to use only Clevite, Fel Pro, Melling, and Sealed Power. The parts guy kept trying to get me to accept brand H rings. I said nope I don't care if Sealed Power cost more that's what I want. I got the rings in and wth they are wrong, too wide and way too big for file fitting the bore. I checked checked and triple checked the pn, should be right I called the vendor. They sent another set same pn except this time they are right. Couldn't help but notice Sealed Power is now made in Mexico.
Because restomods are all about cutting corners. Right ?
If builders had more sense they’d know owners don’t want sub-standard, failure-prone parts on their cars and would pay for the better pieces.
Often times there is no choice but to use inferior imported parts. One very crucial piece that comes to mind is the hub used on C4s. Tons of C4 equipped restomods out there. No one in the US makes a hub. They're all imported from who knows where. One of our members had one break very soon after completion, I believe on his first outing may be wrong on that. For this reason I attempted to disassemble mine and go through them but that wasn't possible. I had 4 what appear to be great condition OEs so I used them. As far as I know there isn't a bearing manufacturer left in the U.S.A. Do you really think the parts used in an LS3 are there because they are better or because they come from the lowest bidder? One day the fact that we don't make anything anymore is going to bite us right in the ***.
Now I'm going outside and change my cheap *** lifetime warranty distributor cap for the third time. This one didn't even last as long as the oil that I recently learned I change way too often. But I didn't go back and get a free replacement, tired of that. So I bought NIB AC Delco, made in Mexico. Oh and go try to find an ignition coil that is made in the U.S.A.
If we ever went to war with China, trying to maintain any automobile, or about anything else, would be like living in Cuba with the American embargo. No parts to be had.
Doug
Originally Posted by Robert61
Often times there is no choice but to use inferior imported parts. One very crucial piece that comes to mind is the hub used on C4s. Tons of C4 equipped restomods out there. No one in the US makes a hub. They're all imported from who knows where. One of our members had one break very soon after completion, I believe on his first outing may be wrong on that. For this reason I attempted to disassemble mine and go through them but that wasn't possible. I had 4 what appear to be great condition OEs so I used them. As far as I know there isn't a bearing manufacturer left in the U.S.A. Do you really think the parts used in an LS3 are there because they are better or because they come from the lowest bidder? One day the fact that we don't make anything anymore is going to bite us right in the ***.
Now I'm going outside and change my cheap *** lifetime warranty distributor cap for the third time. This one didn't even last as long as the oil that I recently learned I change way too often. But I didn't go back and get a free replacement, tired of that. So I bought NIB AC Delco, made in Mexico. Oh and go try to find an ignition coil that is made in the U.S.A.
If we ever went to war with China, trying to maintain any automobile, or about anything else, would be like living in Cuba with the American embargo. No parts to be had.
Doug
Perhaps, but so will China.
Plus, it seems that even their military hardware suffers from the safe poor quality as their over the counter parts, so there's that.
Because restomods are all about cutting corners. Right ?
If builders had more sense they’d know owners don’t want sub-standard, failure-prone parts on their cars and would pay for the better pieces.
I have asked this more then once on this board about resto mods about proven reliability and safety aspects on either shop built spec frames or home brewed ones. but no one seems to want to answer this. I know GM spends countless hours and money on R&D on everything. but what about all these catalog parts?
This post made me think of a product that was squirted into a ball joint (just like you would grease one) that would take all the play out and extend the life of the joint.
Does anyone remember that?
They suddenly disappeared from the market!
At first I thought that people that sell ball joints complained.
If we ever went to war with China, trying to maintain any automobile, or about anything else, would be like living in Cuba with the American embargo. No parts to be had.
Doug
we we have a president that kinda understands but he can't explain his policies in English. And the general population doesn't seem to comprehend that there are issues with buying all of our steel no to mention everything else from a country that may not be our enemy but they certainly aren't a reliable ally and do not have our best interests in mind. I don't know what percentage of our pork we get from them but it's very high. What happens when they decide to close the tap? I know we are drifting far off topic.
This post made me think of a product that was squirted into a ball joint (just like you would grease one) that would take all the play out and extend the life of the joint.
Does anyone remember that?
They suddenly disappeared from the market!
At first I thought that people that sell ball joints complained.
Yes, I remember that. I think it was 3M that supplied the material that was injected, but I could be wrong. My dad offered that service for awile at his garage a very, very long time ago. Here is a pic of the Moog kit he used to inspect the
ball joints before and after the injection.
My guess is that an aftermarket 'upgraded' part failed. The stock primitive front suspensions on these cars are pretty stout.
Have to agree with GTO. Those front ends are built like a tank. When I saw it on the trailer, I thought Pro Team, given all that negative camber on the right front, might have been auto crossing it......
[QUOTE=Westlotorn;1598509013]I used to sell Moog Ball Joints to one of the Specialty A Arm manufacturers that sells to high end restoration shops. They asked me for a much better price because the Chinese copy of the Moog part was only 40% the cost of the Moog Piece.
We told them our price is what it is and we are not Chinese manufactured. They went with the Chinese knock off. Moog Tested the Chinese copy of the part. It lasted less than 1/5 the life of a Moog Ball Joint. Less THAN 1/5!!!!!! The Specialty company did not care and changed to the imported part.
In most car restorations they are driven very few miles so the quality of the cheap Chinese part never shows up. You get what you PAY for.
Federal-Moguls Legal department said this information could not be shared unless they hired 3 independent agencies to test the product and verify the test results.
Guess what, Moog hired the 3 independent labs to test the parts and now they advertise the Moog Part will exceed the life of the import part by 5X. The external tests all verified the Moog Test.
The bad news is most parts are never tested, there are cheap imitation parts flooding our industry and it is so tempting to buy them because the prices are so low.
I am glad Moog went to the bank and financed the 3 independent tests so they could legally advertise what they found but in reality, in most cases the buyer is the one testing the product and the information does not get out so the cheap copies are flooding the market.
For Christ sakes, a Ball Joint is very hard, labor intensive to replace. Why risk all that labor to save $10 on the part. I don't get it.[/QUOTE
You have to watch the major vendors today, as many companies are going the Asian route. There are two major premium brands I can think of that have made that switch and they are no longer a premium vendor. Ball joints in Ford trucks can still be counted on to give it up early. I wonder who their source is?
Last edited by Dan Hampton; 12-17-2018 at 01:26 PM.
I have asked this more then once on this board about resto mods about proven reliability and safety aspects on either shop built spec frames or home brewed ones. but no one seems to want to answer this. I know GM spends countless hours and money on R&D on everything. but what about all these catalog parts?
And folks HAVE answered you Keith, dcaginni divers his restomod many miles annually, my friend's gorgeous '62 that sat beside me at Old Town is going on a dozen years of roadworthy use and the silver split window owner that lives about 3 miles from me with a $200K restomod just got back off the Hot Rod Power Tour... These are professional shop-built frames not cobbled together, shade-tree, Franken-frames....
You've convicted the suspect on very flimsy evidence.....like Mueller and Flynn; since we've gone all political here...
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 12-17-2018 at 07:39 AM.
You know I think it's kinda catchy. I think I'll get one of those posters made up that folks take to car shows. Home brewed cobbled together shade tree Frankenstein frame, engine, and body!
I didn't build an extra one for destructive testing nor did I have a finite element analysis performed.
You know I think it's kinda catchy. I think I'll get one of those posters made up that folks take to car shows. Home brewed cobbled together shade tree Frankenstein frame, engine, and body!
I didn't build an extra one for destructive testing nor did I have a finite element analysis performed.
That's a pretty sweet Frankenframe!! I soooooo have the itch to build a frankenvette on an SRII one of these days!
And folks HAVE answered you Keith, dcaginni divers his restomod many miles annually, my friend's gorgeous '62 that sat beside me at Old Town is going on a dozen years of roadworthy use and the silver split window owner that lives about 3 miles from me with a $200K restomod just got back off the Hot Rod Power Tour... These are professional shop-built frames not cobbled together, shade-tree, Franken-frames....
You've convicted the suspect on very flimsy evidence.....like Mueller and Flynn; since we've gone all political here...
I simply stated that as a mechanic with some experience, and being fairly familiar with these old suspensions and front ends, that I've never seen one fail like that. Not a stock one. So, I ventured that an aftermarket part had failed. It's all speculation until one of us gets a peek under that '58 and sees what part actually failed. This has nothing to do with well crafted modified cars, many of which are on this forum.
Respectfully submitted,
Jeff
12-16-2018, 12:57 AM
