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Has anyone here made their own? I’m wanting to build a manual R&P setup for my ‘56. I don’t want to shell out $2500 for a steeroids kit, and i’m perfectly content without the power, as the front of my car will be on skinnies anyway. I’m looking for which rack someone has used to mate up to something like a basic flaming river colum and borg joints.
I have already done a Jim Meyer kit in my father’s ‘59. It’s a great kit. I’m not looking to lower the front 2” or do coil overs on my car. When I built the chassis for my father’s car, we built it for pro-touring style street duty. My car is much more bare bones, go fast in a strait line. I’m just not fond of how vague and sloppy the factory steering box is, so I’d like to replace it with a manual rack.
This car will eventually make 800+rwhp. It needs to go strait and stop nicely
All the more reason for a front subframe. You get disc brakes, too, and if 800hp doesn’t twist the frame in half you will want something other than a wall to slow you down.
All the more reason for a front subframe. You get disc brakes, too, and if 800hp doesn’t twist the frame in half you will want something other than a wall to slow you down.
The rear is a narrowed 8.8 with discs. Front will be getting discs as well as a power booster and dual master.
Thr Jim Meyer sub frame will not transfer weight as well as the factory front end. As primitive as it is, the factory piece does a great job for strait line racing. I have several friends with cars that run 9’s at 140+ in their C1’s, but their ***** are bigger than mine using the factory steering. The Jim Meyer is just not designed for that much vertical travel, so it’s out of the question. It’s also not going to stiffen the frame any more than the factory sub frame does.
Im simply looking for a suggestion from anyone that has done their own rack conversion besides the cookie cutter Steeroids kit.
Thanks for sharing that, Scotty. I would just stick with a manual rack, but I really like the way they built that cradle to hold the rack. After seeing that, I’ll probably build mine in a similar fashion.
I have no doubt that what's pictured in that listing would turn the front wheels left and right. I can't help being suspicious of the resulting bump steer issues which that set up would create, though.
Notice on the stock steering that you can pretty much draw a straight line thru the lower A-arm pivot back to the inboard tie-rod end. It's generally important that these align as a starting point for achieving minimum bump steer.
Now look at how far out of alignment the tie rod pivot points are with respect to the A-arm pivot axis on this R&P conversion. Not even close! That's got to cause an uncorrectable and horrible bump steer curve.
Best to pass on such an implementation, in my opinion.
For a rack try a Cardone 22-108 or 22-109. These fit the Steeroids brackets, or make your own. I’m not sure what car they are actually for. Maybe a Grand Am ???
Following up on my previous post, take a look at where Steeroids locates the inner tie rod attachment points on their conversion:
See those two bolts protruding from the center of the rack? That's where the tie rods attach. Steeroids has at least made an attempt to minimize bump steer by connecting the tie rods there.
That said, I'm no fan of Steeroids and certainly not a shill for this conversion. I drove a '62 with the Steeroids R&P and the darned thing would NOT go straight on its own. I was constantly applying steering correction. Now, this could have been due to nothing more than a failure of the owner to re-adjust toe-in after installing the rack. I dunno.
But the point I want to make is that if you are going to do a R&P conversion, this illustrates what one of your design goals should be.
J guess I am missing something. If all you are going to do is go in a straight line the factory steering adjusted and maintained will do just fine. The problem most people have with this 49 truck front end is they don't keep it greased. You have to remember it is metal on metal and if you don't keep it greased it will wear rather quickly and become sloppy. I drive my 62 about 7000 miles a year, it has been up to 125 on the Charlotte track and I just don't see the need for another front end. Just my old two cents!
Following up on my previous post, take a look at where Steeroids locates the inner tie rod attachment points on their conversion:
See those two bolts protruding from the center of the rack? That's where the tie rods attach. Steeroids has at least made an attempt to minimize bump steer by connecting the tie rods there.
That said, I'm no fan of Steeroids and certainly not a shill for this conversion. I drove a '62 with the Steeroids R&P and the darned thing would NOT go straight on its own. I was constantly applying steering correction. Now, this could have been due to nothing more than a failure of the owner to re-adjust toe-in after installing the rack. I dunno.
But the point I want to make is that if you are going to do a R&P conversion, this illustrates what one of your design goals should be.
Jim
I’ve got Steeroids on my car and it steers great. But, I also rebuilt the front end and added disc brakes, so everything is tight. No wandering at all, it goes where it’s pointed. Huge improvement over the stock 1949 steering. I suspect the car you drove was out of alignment and/or missing the additional front end shims for more caster.
Jim, I did notice that the steeroids kit did an excellent job of maintaining the factory tie rod geometry, and that certainly minimizes bump steer. The factory 1940’s suspension probably has little to no bump steer, I’d imagine, with the pivot points being where they are.
The problem with the factory steering is that my steering box seems to be somewhat worn out. If it was in good shape, I’d probably just do the disc brake conversion and call it a day. I do have the option of grabbing the whole column/box that came out of my father’s ‘59, but I can’t remember if his steering was sloppy as well. We only took the car for a quick drive down the road one time before tearing the whole car apart. If I were to do that, at least I’d get to have the shorter factory column for more room in the driver seat. I already have a complete Al Knock interior, but I’ll take all the room I can get.
ive also been throwing around another wild idea for the steering that would tighten it up and leave the geometry 100% factory. A Vega steering box is super compact. I could mount a Vega box on the driver side frame rail and run a tie rod from the pitman arm to the factory center pivot. This would also allow me to mess with different length pitman arms to come up with a steering ratio that I like.
Ill be be under the car all day today working on my engine and trans mounts for the 6.0/4L80e. It’ll give me plenty of time to stare at the front end and keep brainstorming.
I’ve got Steeroids on my car and it steers great. But, I also rebuilt the front end and added disc brakes, so everything is tight. No wandering at all, it goes where it’s pointed. Huge improvement over the stock 1949 steering. I suspect the car you drove was out of alignment and/or missing the additional front end shims for more caster.
Being a '62, it would have had the 2* shims already. But to track straight, the shims aren't strictly necessary. My '54 doesn't have them and yet it doesn't wander; it's a joy to drive.
My suspicion is the owner didn't realize the need to re-adjust toe-in and that the tires were actually toeing out. The experience just left a bad taste....
Being a '62, it would have had the 2* shims already. But to track straight, the shims aren't strictly necessary. My '54 doesn't have them and yet it doesn't wander; it's a joy to drive.
My suspicion is the owner didn't realize the need to re-adjust toe-in and that the tires were actually toeing out. The experience just left a bad taste....
I suspect the same thing. Slight toe out instead of slight toe in will definitely cause a car to wander down the road.
I should also add that I’m attempting to solve two problems at the same time while doing a steering conversion. I’m using side-of-the-block poly motor mounts. The factory steering box’s pitman arm and linkage are right in the way of the driver side mount. I “could” use a set of bosses that are back further for my driver side mount, but it’s not ideal. I’d like to mount the block using the factory 4 bosses.
Your idea of a Vega steering box is intriguing. If you follow through with this, be sure to post lots of pictures. I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in how that would work out.
There are rebuild kits available for the stock C1 steering box. These kits include a new worm and a new sector roller. The reproduction worm is just slightly off in its machining and you have to compensate for this. I don't know the details but it's not tough to do. In any event, an original steering box and front suspension in good condition tracks straight, turns smoothly, and won't raise your blood pressure.
The steeroids rack looks like a cavalier piece, pontiac sunfire had a manual rack available. I've got one in my 48 Plymouth. Bumpsteer is not an issue because of the tierod inner mounting.
01-21-2019, 06:55 PM
Rack and Pinion steering on a C1
