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Lief,
I apologise for being late in my responce. I had the EXACT symptoms on my 63 that I was using the Breakerless SE. The degradation was slow over time until the engine would not start. Thus my t/s began, I was diligent in replacing parts and verifying results. Finally I questioned the Breakerless SE module and; Re-installed the Pertronix that I was using previously and the engine started and ran fine. I did send the module back and was told it tested fine and it was never sent back to me. attempted to by a replacement module but was told I had to buy a complete unit. I declined.
IMHO, These "in" distributor modules do have a failure rate. Remember the HEI distributors of 1975+ and the small cap HEI's of the 90's; Module failure was also problematic. I all ways carried a spare module in my 75 Blazer AND in my wife's 95 S 10. Yes Her's did fail!
Again, IMHO, remove the current sys and go back to points OR Pertronix as your next t/s procedure.
KEEP US IN THE LOOP!
Brgds,
Rene
Frankie you got it, had the same problem with a mallory unit, found the bottom hold down plate had come apart and screw up the pulse to the plugs. I epoxied the plate and ordered a new distributor, no more problems.
All easy things to check from people above with a volt/ohm meter plus a great suggestion to double check the ground path for the primary circuit with the ohm meter function. Check your engine grounds including that negative battery cable and post connections with that ohm meter for resistance and make sure that distributor body grounds to to engine block via hold down clamp, that is the ground path.
Tough to find a intermittent problem, but the engine may give you clues like the cranking you mentioned. Try to ignore the comments about widget etc. find the problem by eliminating the simple things first.
Last drove four days ago...it's been raining every day since. Absolutely, zero issues since last entry. Sun out today, 54*, time for a ride. Crank no start. Hook up the voltmeter to the coil, turn key to the "ON" position shows 12.5v, crank the starter meter drops to 4v and then rises to 5.5v while cranking...won't start. Run bypass wire from positive side of battery to positive side of coil...same results...no start and showing the same voltage readings on the meter. Now, where do we go??
Leif
Unless you have low cycles & high confidence in your starter since last refurbished, posts #23 & 24 (solenoid related) are worthy of exploring. The motor feed terminal edge can erode and the contact plunger disc eventually becomes scarred with arc strikes. The intermittent nature of your problem may be due to the disc's rotation at each energizing ... landing on a particularly bad spot relative to the motor feed stud & resistance may be too high to overcome. Pic below is from my '66 327 with similar problem last summer. Good luck.
Jeff
This was my thought process, as well. I'm thinking the SE should either work or not work and not be intermittent...could be but I certainly wan't to diagnose and resolve the issue through the process of elimination. Thank you.
Leif:
My experience with my 67 327 is the SE failed after I'd had it for a few months, so I was towed home because the car wouldn't start. It started and ran fine the next few times I drove it over several weeks. Then I got towed home again when the car wouldn't start. Put the points back and it's been fine for years now. So, the SE system can fail intermittently.
I'm a little confused how you ran a positive wire from the battery to the coil and still got four volts on the positive on the coil while you were cranking. where did you have the negative on the meter connected while you were reading this low voltage? It would take a heck of a current draw to drop a 12 volt battery to 4 volts unless the battery was bad or you had bad connection to either ground or the battery and then it shouldn't even activate the starter.
Jeff and Lou,
Thank you for your sharing of experiences. Thirty minutes after my failed start attempt, I went back out to the garage to give it another shot...instantly started up. Took her for an hours drive...absolutely flawless. The solenoid is 7-8 years old. Car has been driven just under 30k miles in that time period. I have experienced and rehabilitated more than one solenoid in my lifetime, so I know this might be the issue. Also, Lou, if you say the SE can be intermittent maybe that's contributing. Still a vexing mystery at this point.
Thanks to both once again.
I'm a little confused how you ran a positive wire from the battery to the coil and still got four volts on the positive on the coil while you were cranking. where did you have the negative on the meter connected while you were reading this low voltage? It would take a heck of a current draw to drop a 12 volt battery to 4 volts unless the battery was bad or you had bad connection to either ground or the battery and then it shouldn't even activate the starter.
Jack,
The ground for the volt meter was the carb stud. Battery stays on a tender and is fully charged. Seems to have ample cranking power, as well.
I had this problem with my 66 using a pertronix ignitor. Pertronix told me to bypass the ballast resistor and that fixed it. The only purpose of the ballast resistor is to lower the voltage to the points so they don't burn up. If you don;t have points, you don't need (or want) it. The ignition unit in the distributor is looking for 12 volts, not 8 or 6.
Ray
I had this problem with my 66 using a pertronix ignitor. Pertronix told me to bypass the ballast resistor and that fixed it. The only purpose of the ballast resistor is to lower the voltage to the points so they don't burn up. If you don;t have points, you don't need (or want) it. The ignition unit in the distributor is looking for 12 volts, not 8 or 6.
Ray
Even if the ballast resistor was out of the circuit, it would still start and run as long as you held the key to start. The ballast circuit is bypassed all the way from the ignition switch to the coil in start position by the pink wire coming up from the starter solenoid.
Leif, if you get in the position to measure when it won't start, double check what you did with the jumper. It doesn't add up.
Even if the ballast resistor was out of the circuit, it would still start and run as long as you held the key to start. The ballast circuit is bypassed all the way from the ignition switch to the coil in start position by the pink wire coming up from the starter solenoid.
Leif, if you get in the position to measure when it won't start, double check what you did with the jumper. It doesn't add up.
Jack,
Ran the jumper wire, with alligator clips, from the positive side of the battery to the positive side of the ignition coil.
Did you check with a ohm meter the resistance between the distributor body and engine block and engine to battery through the negative battery cable.
If the ground path is marginal it's possible that could be a problem. The next time it happens run a jumper wire from the battery negative terminal to the distributor body and see if that helps.
The starter cranked the engine, and the jumper wire from battery + to distributor + provided battery to the coil, but it still didn't start. Under this set of conditions, the solenoid wasn't keeping the ignition from functioning.
There is zero indication that the module is the problem. It might be, but given the intermittent nature of the problem he needs reassurance that it is fixed. The best way to do this is for the problem to rear its ugly head, he takes action and it is fixed. Personally, I would want this peace of mind.
I agree. Definitive proof is needed. Sometimes even moving wires around can "fix" a problem, its not far from there to replace a part and seemingly fix an intermittent problem.
I had this problem once. Not saying it is the same problem, but the wires that connect to the coil, use two small forks crimped or soldered on. In my case the wire was fractured under the insulation right at this point. It looked perfectly fine. It was frustrating to locate the problem since taking measurements etc. would sometimes move wires a bit. Looking back if I just "jostled the wires" while it was running, I probably would have found it sooner.
First of all, name calling has no place on this forum, so I hope that doesn’t happen and you continue to participate, share, and learn (me too).
There is zero indication that the module is the problem. It might be, but given the intermittent nature of the problem he needs reassurance that it is fixed. The best way to do this is for the problem to rear its ugly head, he takes action and it is fixed. Personally, I would want this peace of mind.
Module not likely. They're like a light bulb: they work or they don't, in regards to the car starting and running. But it could be a bad pick-up coil in the distributor....I've seen that a lot in the past, used to be common on the Chrysler BID systems in the '70's and '80s. Again, the thing to do now has already been stated. In post #10. Replace the widget with points and condenser, and see if reliability returns. Not even an hour's worth of work, and time well spent eliminating red herrings.
I had exactly the same scenario. The black wire on the negative terminal where the crimp is was loose in the crimp. every time I changed something it would run for a week or two or even more. I even took the points out and installed a breakerless SE system. Turned out that everything I did I had to take the shield off and it wiggled that black wire at the top of the coil and then it ran for a while. one day I noticed that if I looked closely I could move the wire side to side under the crimp. I opened up the crimps stripped the wire back a little, crimped it and I've had no problems for over a year now. Same thing can happen if the black wire is loose on the other end at the points plate.
UPDATE...Several times over the last few days, the no start issue has occurred. Here's the sequence. Depress accelerator to set choke, depress once more for a shot of gas, turn key to start. Engine turns over but won't fire. Attempt three starts and then leave it alone. Go back in 15 minutes, attempt to start again...no start. Go back in 30 minutes, fires up...every time. After reading everyone's suggestions again and reading many, many articles on basic mechanical single coil ignition systems, I decided to change the coil (yes, Frankie, I had a spare) Caveat...I had gone thru the same start/no start routine before I exchanged the coil and it started on the third go round. After exchanging the coil, she fired off instantly again. We'll see over the next several days if this has solved the intermittent no start issue. I have attached a couple of pics of the new coil next to the old coil...notice the bulging bottom on the old coil...think it was about to let go (kinda like a hot water heater). Again, thanks to all who have participated in this journey, and I'll let everyone know how everything plays out during the next 30 days.
01-28-2019, 11:45 PM
) Caveat...I had gone thru the same start/no start routine before I exchanged the coil and it started on the third go round. After exchanging the coil, she fired off instantly again. We'll see over the next several days if this has solved the intermittent no start issue. I have attached a couple of pics of the new coil next to the old coil...notice the bulging bottom on the old coil...think it was about to let go (kinda like a hot water heater). Again, thanks to all who have participated in this journey, and I'll let everyone know how everything plays out during the next 30 days.
