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67 435 Faked?

 
Old 02-10-2019, 11:17 AM
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65_L76_Wanted
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Default 67 435 Faked?

I am considering 67 cars and have hard the the 67 435 are the most faked cars. I am interested in learning more so I can avoid. Can you use CCAS to authenticate the engine stamp and Vin plate to avoid being taken? Or can they even get around the engine pad stamp and Vin authentication?

Please advise (send a PM if you think best to discuss)....
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:27 AM
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Your right about one of the most faked. Having Al Greening aproval does help.
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:48 AM
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I would want real paperwork before I would buy a 435 for big money. A real tank sticker or POP. Would not have bought mine if it didn't have a tank sticker 26 years ago. Yes they were faking & restamping blocks back then.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:05 PM
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Faking a corvette's credentials/provenance has been the topic of much discussion here on the Forum and there are many threads for you to peruse on the subject. Some things which would prove a corvette's origins are more difficult to fake than others but most Forum members seem to agree that everything and anything can be faked depending on who is doing it and how much time and money they are willing to spend in the effort. Some believe that there are a few specific things which cannot be faked but again, the opinions vary greatly.

Most of us here on the Forum (including myself) believe that you should (at the very least) hire/borrow a highly knowledgeable person (an expert if you will) on C2's in general and on a 67 L71 specifically (if possible) to have him look over your prospective purchase prior to plunking down the cash. You want someone who is on your side and that you can trust. If there is an NCRS club in your area you may want to consider contacting them as a first step and go from there.

A 67 L71 or perhaps a 67 L68 are believed to be the most "faked" corvettes out there and the standing joke is that there are more of them now than were ever produced during the 67 model year. For a number of corvette lovers that particular year and engine type is the holy grail of corvette purchases and is much sought after; hence the reason for the fakery. Current day trends seem to prefer a 67 L71 with a black exterior, a red interior, a red stinger and bolt on wheels. A black exterior has made a major comeback in recent years but ironically was the least favorite color for the 1967 model year.

Good luck with your purchase and I would advise you to spend some time reading the pertinent threads and opinions here on the Forum as there are many.

C.J.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:09 PM
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Thanks for your note and your thoughts! Also, your car looks great.

Wish I, too, was in position 26 years ago to go after one of these. Always like the 67 but it was out of my league back then. Now it will be a much more expensive venture...
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:10 PM
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Thanks for your thought!
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:18 PM
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That is why people like Pancho Thompson are invaluable to our members. A few dollars invested in an evaluation can save tens of thousands of dollars and multiple headache down the road. With the high end cars, always approach them with a jaundiced eye.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:58 PM
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This is always an instructive thread:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-250-bore.html

Doug
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by C2Scho View Post

A 67 L71 or perhaps a 67 L68 are believed to be the most "faked" corvettes out there and the standing joke is that there are more of them now than were ever produced during the 67 model year.
I would add the 1965 396 cubic inch L78 to that list. I'm sure there are more of them than were actually produced.

However, full disclosure solves a lot of problems. IMO, there is nothing wrong with a correct, well running 435, in a '67, if it's disclosed properly and the price is $30K less than a 'born with' 435. The way I see it, the block is just another part of the car.
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:36 PM
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I would speculate that the very best fakes are close to undetectable. However, most are not that sophisticated. Join the NCRS and buy the judging guide for the year you are interested in, and you'll be able to spot a lot of potential problem cars. Continue to stay active here on the forum and educate yourself (there are some really sharp members here), and you'll likely avoid a disappointing surprise down the road.

Good luck with your search!
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 65_L76_Wanted View Post
I am considering 67 cars and have hard the the 67 435 are the most faked cars. I am interested in learning more so I can avoid. Can you use CCAS to authenticate the engine stamp and Vin plate to avoid being taken? Or can they even get around the engine pad stamp and Vin authentication?

Please advise (send a PM if you think best to discuss)....
I believe Al and CCAS only authenticate cars for the current owner, if I remember correctly. Someone can correct me if Im mistaken.

So, if true, unless you can get a potential seller to get CCAS involved, you might not be able to go that route on a prospective buy to "avoid being taken."
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by vettebuyer6369 View Post
I believe Al and CCAS only authenticate cars for the current owner, if I remember correctly. Someone can correct me if Im mistaken.

So, if true, unless you can get a potential seller to get CCAS involved, you might not be able to go that route on a prospective buy to "avoid being taken."
that is true and if the seller has nothing to hide then a agreement should be able to be reached. if the seller refuses then you know something is up
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:46 PM
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Just out of curiosity, why do you want one?

Ed
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kenba View Post
I would want real paperwork before I would buy a 435 for big money. A real tank sticker or POP. Would not have bought mine if it didn't have a tank sticker 26 years ago. Yes they were faking & restamping blocks back then.
I agree with this. When I bought my 67 435 back in 1995, besides being an low mile original unrestored car with the original engine it had:
. Original Window Sticker
. Corvette order - Copy #7 document
. Tank sticker (still on the tank - but visible and clean)
. POP (with service records noted inside)
. Original Owner's manual
. A news article on the car and original owner from 1968 (with pictures) that I got from the original owner (from Thunder Valley raceway as one of their record holders)
. Letter from the original owner with a contemporary picture
. Copies of the title from the second owner that go back to 1970 when sold by the same dealer (the title from the original owner got turned in when the car was sold back to the dealer in 1970).
. Sales document for the second sale
. Maintenance records from day 1
. And a copy of the original invoice of the car (dealer is keeping the original so the car cannot be faked).
.Original keys (as silly as this sounds, there are numbers on the keys that tie to the Copy #7)



Originally Posted by Wayne88 View Post
I
However, full disclosure solves a lot of problems. IMO, there is nothing wrong with a correct, well running 435, in a '67, if it's disclosed properly and the price is $30K less than a 'born with' 435. The way I see it, the block is just another part of the car.
For a real 67 435, the premium is well above $30K over a restamp/fake/tribute car or whatever you want to call them.

Originally Posted by emdoller View Post
Just out of curiosity, why do you want one?
Ed
I would not want to speak for the OP, but when I bought mine in 1995, I had some of the following reasons:
- Represents the pinnacle of early generation Corvette street performance. Everything after 67 got slower and the race engines (L88/ZL1) were not really street vehicles.
- Most dramatic looking Corvette within the most classic Corvette generation. I think they overshadow all the earlier C2s, even the SWC. That 67 BB hood may be the most copied styling cue in all the automotive performance world.
- Still a very fast car made for spirited driving. The original owner of my car ran 12.9 in the quarter bone stock. With some reversible mods (with all the original stuff back on the car when I bought it) the car ran 11.7 sec 1/4 at about 125 mph. These were and still are very fast cars.
- A silver big block 67 was owner by a co-worker when I had a summer job back in 1979. The look of the car blew me away and I promised myself that I would get one some day.

To the OP, there are a lot of fakes out there, but there are real known cars that are out there. Expensive, yes, but at least you get what you paid for. As for the driving experience, a quality fake (bought at a much lower price) can still be a great experience. The car won't be any different and most people won't know or care if the car is an original car, and there are a lot of them out there.
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
that is true and if the seller has nothing to hide then a agreement should be able to be reached. if the seller refuses then you know something is up
Or they don’t want to pay for it.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by vettebuyer6369 View Post
Or they don’t want to pay for it.
when your selling or buying 100k plus old car a agrement could be reached based on the finding of the report.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:15 PM
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Are you in this for the enjoyment of driving an iconic car? If so, do yourself a favor; buy one that is advertised as a NOM. You’ll enjoy it much more than a “correct” car that you’ll constantly worry about and be questioned about its true authenticity.

Are you in it as a pure investment? If so, don’t buy anything until you learn every single detail and nuance of these cars. Fair warning; it takes many years and many trips to the psychiatrist before you’ll be ready to make a purchase!

My advice: buy a car that you think is cool, and just drive it for fun. Life is short.......
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonio View Post
Are you in this for the enjoyment of driving an iconic car? If so, do yourself a favor; buy one that is advertised as a NOM. You’ll enjoy it much more than a “correct” car that you’ll constantly worry about and be questioned about its true authenticity.

Are you in it as a pure investment? If so, don’t buy anything until you learn every single detail and nuance of these cars. Fair warning; it takes many years and many trips to the psychiatrist before you’ll be ready to make a purchase!

My advice: buy a car that you think is cool, and just drive it for fun. Life is short.......
Great advice. This is why I asked why the OP wanted to buy this particular car.

Ed
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by vettebuyer6369 View Post
I believe Al and CCAS only authenticate cars for the current owner, if I remember correctly. Someone can correct me if Im mistaken.

So, if true, unless you can get a potential seller to get CCAS involved, you might not be able to go that route on a prospective buy to "avoid being taken."
Correct been there done that!
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:24 PM
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Or you can save money and buy a ‘69 Z28 cause those are never faked
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