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... the 461 Head became standard equipment on the 327 in 1962 - its' moniker Fuelie arose cause it was used in combination the Rochester Fuel Injection system
You have only partly quoted, and (conveniently) taken this out of context
the 461 heads became standard equipment in combination with the fuel injection
Very simple: no Fuel Injection, no 461 heads
Better to remain silent and thought an idiot, than speak up and prove it true. - Abraham Lincoln
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Last edited by roadster65; 02-15-2019 at 10:12 PM.
Good article worth reading if you want info on the "double-hump" heads - there were many of them, and the "461" heads were not the best of the bunch... In fact, you want to be a little careful buying old 461's: https://www.rodauthority.com/tech-st...ylinder-heads/
Here's a good tabular summary of the large-valve 64cc heads used during this time period. I wouldn't bet money on the years shown being 100% correct, but the casting numbers and other descriptions are good, with the point being that you don't need to limit yourself to the "461" if you're looking for a stock, period-correct, large-valve 64cc head:
Hi Lars - That is a very good article, which I used as a reference check - within the table, the 3927186 and 3947041 are comparable to 3782461 with the added accessory bolt holes at the front of the block which the 378461 doesn't have, relying on a power sapping pulley system to drive the accessories - Regards GV
Originally Posted by lars
Good article worth reading if you want info on the "double-hump" heads - there were many of them, and the "461" heads were not the best of the bunch... In fact, you want to be a little careful buying old 461's: https://www.rodauthority.com/tech-st...ylinder-heads/
Here's a good tabular summary of the large-valve 64cc heads used during this time period. I wouldn't bet money on the years shown being 100% correct, but the casting numbers and other descriptions are good, with the point being that you don't need to limit yourself to the "461" if you're looking for a stock, period-correct, large-valve 64cc head:
... the 461 Head became standard equipment on the 327 in 1962 - its' moniker Fuelie arose cause it was used in combination the Rochester Fuel Injection system
.
I don't care how you try to back pedal and spin it, your literal words claim that 461 heads were standard equipment on the 327 engine. That is simply not true.
You have only partly quoted, and (conveniently) taken this out of context
I wanted you to focus on your factual error.
the 461 heads became standard equipment in combination with the fuel injection
You should have said this in the first place. You are much closer to being right.
Very simple: no Fuel Injection, no 461 heads
And, once again you are wrong. See posting #18.
Better to remain silent and thought an idiot, than speak up and prove it true. - Abraham Lincoln
Within the table, the 3927186 and 3947041 are comparable to 3782461 with the added accessory bolt holes at the front of the block which the 378461 doesn't have,
That's exactly right, and it's one of several reasons not to focus too much on the "legendary" 461's, unless you're doing a "true" restoration (which the OP is not). Heads with nearly identical specs, with accessory bolt holes, are much more "user-friendly" when it comes to adapting some accessories onto the engine. But with all that in mind, a person should seriously consider the new aftermarket "double hump" heads, in terms of cost, reliability, and performance (as outlined in the article I referenced above) if you're doing a "period-correct" engine without doing a "restored & correct" engine.
Many years ago....Car Craft did an article on an ( I think Jeff Smith's) old Chevelle. He was running a mild 283 in it with a small cam, 4bbl etc. He stuck on a set of double humps to replace the "power pack" heads with small valves. At the track it slowed significantly. Of course his car weighed a lot more than a C-1.....and no telling what if any port work had been done (but I'm thinking none)….but unless you're winding that 283 awful tight...I'm not sure the larger valves/ports are going to help a lot.
I don't care how you try to back pedal and spin it, your literal words claim that 461 heads were standard equipment on the 327 engine. That is simply not true..
Jim; I think you're being quite mischievous in an attempt to obfuscate the facts of the topic - Regards GV
3 pts to you on Abe Lincoln
Last edited by roadster65; 02-16-2019 at 04:10 AM.
OK! That was really fun, Really!!...................Reason for the Original Post.................I want to replace my heads on my 61. I was looking at the 461, rebuilt as a quick replacement. Then having my 3795896 heads rebuilt.
What would be best...... sticking with the 3795896's that were on the 283 when I purchased the car. or going to another suggested head set?
By the way the 61 runs great......I'm just not certain of the condition of the heads.
After reading all the posts and not knowing as much as I do now.........I will look for a quick replacement set of Power Pack Heads.... Can any of you Confirm for me that Head #'s 3795896 are Power Pack Heads?
Edited: Just found this: Referring to Power Pack Head inquiry.... The symbol is a rectangle with a smaller pyramid or triangle on top of it. Later model heads with the power pack symbol are the 520 and 896 heads. They were used on 283s and 327s in the 60s.
Still would like a confirmation from the Forum Experts.......
And thanks ALL.........Have a great weekend. Anytime we can get together for Drinks and Cigars........I'm in!
.... Can any of you Confirm for me that Head #'s 3795896 are Power Pack Heads?
Still would like a confirmation from the Forum Experts.......
dcamick
That type head was used first on the '57 283/220 engine. Different casting number but still basically the same as what you have or are asking about. I believe your head is a mid '60's 283 two barrel/four barrel head. Again different casting number but essentially the same head and performance.
OK! That was really fun, Really!!...................Reason for the Original Post.................I want to replace my heads on my 61. I was looking at the 461, rebuilt as a quick replacement. Then having my 3795896 heads rebuilt.
What would be best...... sticking with the 3795896's that were on the 283 when I purchased the car. or going to another suggested head set?
By the way the 61 runs great......I'm just not certain of the condition of the heads.
Hi Doug; you probably know this already: basically. in very simple terms, the bottom end is built for reliability, whilst the top end is built for power (usually), the shape and size of the inlet ports are a big factor in determining power, (but not the only one) this is because their design has a direct effect of the burn / mixture and more importantly the velocity or rate flow of fuel / air creating atomisation of the fuel mixture - the more dispersed the atomisation of the fuel, the better the burn rate and bigger and more effective the explosion in the combustion chamber which effects the rate drives the piston down. If the port is too big the atomisation is less effective at low RPM - likewise if the port is too small the atomisation is less effective at high RPM - the aim in a "street" motor is the achieve max torque in the 1,500 - 4,500 rpm range - the exhaust ports have a huge influence over power output in how fast they can assist in extracting burnt gasses - a surfeit of carbon dioxide build-up means less volume available for oxygen in fuel burn = less power. - I'd probably stick with the 3795896 that are already on the 283 - Regards GV
Hi Doug; you probably know this already: basically. in very simple terms, the bottom end is built for reliability, whilst the top end is built for power (usually), the shape and size of the inlet ports are a big factor in determining power, (but not the only one) this is because their design has a direct effect of the burn / mixture and more importantly the velocity or rate flow of fuel / air creating atomisation of the fuel mixture - the more dispersed the atomisation of the fuel, the better the burn rate and bigger and more effective the explosion in the combustion chamber which effects the rate drives the piston down. If the port is too big the atomisation is less effective at low RPM - likewise if the port is too small the atomisation is less effective at high RPM - the aim in a "street" motor is the achieve max torque in the 1,500 - 4,500 rpm range - the exhaust ports have a huge influence over power output in how fast they can assist in extracting burnt gasses - a surfeit of carbon dioxide build-up means less volume available for oxygen in fuel burn = less power. - I'd probably stick with the 3795896 that are already on the 283 - Regards GV
The new "461X" heads that were patterned after the ill-fated 1960 aluminum head were first installed on the 1961 275 and 315 HP 283 Fuel injection engines, ONLY. That's how they got the name "Fuel Injection heads" back in 1961, and they were a BIG deal to every hot rodder back then because the big inlet ports and valves were bolt-on horsepower. They were manufactured with the 1.94/1.5" valve set, only, and the inlet port volume is about 172cc.
1962 utilization included the 360 HP FI engine and was expanded to include the 340 and 300 HP 327s, and this was carried into the 1963 model year.
For 1964 the 461X was replaced by the 461 (no X). Inlet port volume was reduced to the 160-165 cc range and they were processed for both the standard 1.94/1.50" valve set for the 300 HP engine or the 2.02/1.6" set, which included an unshrouding cut centered on the inlet valve for SHP/FI engines which are the '64-'65 365/375HP engines and the '65- '66 350 HP engine.
For 1967 the 462, which eliminated the small quench zone on the spark plug side of the 461 chamber and added about 1-2 cc chamber volume for both valve size sets replaced the 461.
It seems like every yokel I've run across for the last 50 years thinks any big port, especially big valve head is a "Fuel Injection head". That's was happens when you use generic terminology and nicknames instead of talking casting numbers and are clueless about the development history and part number sequence as designs changed.
Yeah, lot's of Yokels out there. Why, I even know some that dare call a cylinder case an engine block. Some even refer to a differential case as a carrier and vice versa. Some even went so far as to refer to the Blue Flame engine as a valve pounder because it sometimes detonated so bad.
[QUOTE=dcamick;1598888352]OK! That was really fun, Really!!...................Reason for the Original Post.................I want to replace my heads on my 61. I was looking at the 461, rebuilt as a quick replacement. Then having my 3795896 heads rebuilt.
What would be best...... sticking with the 3795896's that were on the 283 when I purchased the car. or going to another suggested head set?
By the way the 61 runs great......I'm just not certain of the condition of the heads.[/QUOT
To me, unless you are building a car to be judged I find it very difficult to not just buy aftermarket aluminum heads when you consider everything. If you have to rebuild stock iron heads 99% of people are going to porting and polishing at a minimum and depending on what you start with maybe go to bigger valves. If you buy complete aluminum heads they are already massaged, have the big valves, lighter on the front end and disapate heat better which allows you to run higher compression with pump gas. The cost of the above comparison is pretty close to the same.
To me, unless you are building a car to be judged I find it very difficult to not just buy aftermarket aluminum heads when you consider everything. If you have to rebuild stock iron heads 99% of people are going to porting and polishing at a minimum and depending on what you start with maybe go to bigger valves. If you buy complete aluminum heads they are already massaged, have the big valves, lighter on the front end and disapate heat better which allows you to run higher compression with pump gas. The cost of the above comparison is pretty close to the same.
By the way the 61 runs great......I'm just not certain of the condition of the heads
Why wouldn't it make more sense to just leave the hood shut and not mess with it since it's running so well? Somebody here running a surplus?
02-15-2019, 10:00 PM
