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[C2] C2 door panel replacement

 
Old 02-28-2019, 04:30 PM
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jpjs
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Default C2 door panel replacement

Anybody out there do a replacement of 66 roadster door panels? Am interested in experiences, short cuts, install aids, etc

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Old 02-28-2019, 05:47 PM
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Frankie the Fink
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More than once - on my 63... You have to provide a year - later C2s are vastly different...
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Old 02-28-2019, 05:54 PM
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Default c2 door panel replacement.

you are right! mine is a 66 conv
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Old 02-28-2019, 06:45 PM
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YES...I have done many also...and there is really no short cuts...unless you want it to look like you took short cuts.

I use Al Knoch door panels when I have to buy and install them.... but you can get the ones you want.

I generally make sure the two machine screws that go under the arm rest are good and not all screwed up due to some idiot used sheet metal screws instead and messed up the threads.

I use plastic as a vapor barrier and make my own and correctly install the strip caulk so any water that gets to it can correctly drain out of this area.

i also seal up the access panel so no water comes though it once I get it screwed into position. I do the top and sides of this metal plate.

I test fit the door panel and make any needed adjustments to get it to fit correctly. Sometimes...but NOT ALWAYS... some parts may need to be slightly moved to get it to fit correctly.

Making sure you have all required parts is wise. Even if they seem a bit ridiculous.

Double checking the 'race track' trim and other trim to make sure it is secured correctly.

Not hard to do but can take a bit of time to get them on correctly.

DUB
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Old 03-02-2019, 06:42 PM
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Default c2 door panel replacement.

Thank you DUB your comments a big help!!
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Old 03-02-2019, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DUB View Post
YES...I have done many also...and there is really no short cuts...unless you want it to look like you took short cuts.

I use Al Knoch door panels when I have to buy and install them.... but you can get the ones you want.

I generally make sure the two machine screws that go under the arm rest are good and not all screwed up due to some idiot used sheet metal screws instead and messed up the threads.

I use plastic as a vapor barrier and make my own and correctly install the strip caulk so any water that gets to it can correctly drain out of this area.

i also seal up the access panel so no water comes though it once I get it screwed into position. I do the top and sides of this metal plate.

I test fit the door panel and make any needed adjustments to get it to fit correctly. Sometimes...but NOT ALWAYS... some parts may need to be slightly moved to get it to fit correctly.

Making sure you have all required parts is wise. Even if they seem a bit ridiculous.

Double checking the 'race track' trim and other trim to make sure it is secured correctly.

Not hard to do but can take a bit of time to get them on correctly.

DUB
Dub,

I'll go with you on all of this but the CA panels are better and fit much better.... While I carry both and sell both, the CA panel was re-tooled so that the upper support and the Z around the vent window was made correctly. I even supplied with NOS upper felts to use to replicate the correct bend. But their panels also have the correct tweak to the upper support. On the 65 complete restoration we did a few years back the customer had already purchased the other set... and the fit was nothing like the CA panels. So I brought one in, installed it and let him decide which panel he wanted. Needless to say he elected to replace the other side.... yes there is that much difference in the two different suppliers and the CA panels fit like a glove.

I'll add to this a bit too...

When installing a mid year panel don't cut the holes per the pre marked openings in the panel through the vinyl. If you pre-fit the panels you won't be able to do this very well but you can use lipstick on the window and the vent window cranks to mark where the holes need to be.

On original door panels the holes for the cranks were not dead center of the marked holes, I have several original panels here to show you if needed. If you pre-cut the holes then you run the risk of either the crank or the bezel not covering the entire hole.

Willcox

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Old 03-02-2019, 07:33 PM
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I guess it depends on who puts the door panels together at the different companies because I found corvette America to make the worst door panels ever. Had to send three of them back I canít believe they didnít look at them before they package them. Then they Want you to pay the shipping.

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Old 03-02-2019, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Willcox Corvette View Post
Dub,

I'll go with you on all of this but the CA panels are better and fit much better.... While I carry both and sell both, the CA panel was re-tooled so that the upper support and the Z around the vent window was made correctly. I even supplied with NOS upper felts to use to replicate the correct bend. But their panels also have the correct tweak to the upper support. On the 65 complete restoration we did a few years back the customer had already purchased the other set... and the fit was nothing like the CA panels. So I brought one in, installed it and let him decide which panel he wanted. Needless to say he elected to replace the other side.... yes there is that much difference in the two different suppliers and the CA panels fit like a glove.
Willcox
I've installed several sets of Corvette America panels and they fit perfectly. I have a set waiting to be installed on my current project. The bend at the wing window is identical to the originals. I wouldn't consider panels from the other vendor, even if they were half the price as I've seen how they fit.
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Old 03-02-2019, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 1snake View Post
I've installed several sets of Corvette America panels and they fit perfectly. I have a set waiting to be installed on my current project. The bend at the wing window is identical to the originals. I wouldn't consider panels from the other vendor, even if they were half the price as I've seen how they fit.
I can't agree more... .

I'm an Al fan...I'v'e known the man over thirty years.... but the upper support re-fab CA did along with the upper felt change is the bomb... Just like you said... they fit like a glove.

The dash pads for the mid years are the same from CA... as well and including the changes made on the seat foam...

Doug (at ca) is now retired (and I miss the old grumpy bastard) but he and a fella named Mike came down here a few times to do test fitting.... It was a pleasure working with them both and helping make changes that needed to be made years ago.

We did the test fit on the 1958-1962 dash pads, we did the test fit on the 1968-1977 lower dash pads and even the 62 (rocker panels last month) and the 1965-1967 side exhaust covers.. We also did a test fit for them on the 1968-1975 soft tops from Key... (which sucked) but that's another story.. Guess it can't be all glamour and glitz...lol. But as long as they keep throwing this stuff at us and as long as we can help make changes... that'll work for everyone... I'm in.

Ernie

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Old 03-03-2019, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Willcox Corvette View Post
Dub,

I'll go with you on all of this but the CA panels are better and fit much better.... While I carry both and sell both, the CA panel was re-tooled so that the upper support and the Z around the vent window was made correctly. I even supplied with NOS upper felts to use to replicate the correct bend. But their panels also have the correct tweak to the upper support. On the 65 complete restoration we did a few years back the customer had already purchased the other set... and the fit was nothing like the CA panels. So I brought one in, installed it and let him decide which panel he wanted. Needless to say he elected to replace the other side.... yes there is that much difference in the two different suppliers and the CA panels fit like a glove.

I'll add to this a bit too...

When installing a mid year panel don't cut the holes per the pre marked openings in the panel through the vinyl. If you pre-fit the panels you won't be able to do this very well but you can use lipstick on the window and the vent window cranks to mark where the holes need to be.

On original door panels the holes for the cranks were not dead center of the marked holes, I have several original panels here to show you if needed. If you pre-cut the holes then you run the risk of either the crank or the bezel not covering the entire hole.

Willcox
Thanks Willcox! Appreciate your suggestions. Will use them.
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:49 AM
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I like AK products too but the 63 door panels I got did not have the bend fir a coupe where the rear vent window vertical channel runs down into the door. It took some nerve-wracking work to get them close....laying the panel across two boards and forcing the bend in with a knee. Go too far and the panel is toast. I've heard (but haven't confirmed) that AK may have addressed this...

The upper rear corner at the very top isn't the greatest fit either if you compare it to originals...


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Old 03-03-2019, 02:52 PM
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Thanks Frank! Bending that with your knee must have given you pause.......!
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Old 03-03-2019, 03:35 PM
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Much info here:


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Old 03-03-2019, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jpjs View Post
Thanks Frank! Bending that with your knee must have given you pause.......!
Errr....yeah.

The trick is to lay the top of the panel, vinyl side out across two wood blocks on the floor about 1" high perpendicular to the panel about 6" to each side side of the area you want to bend....that limits how far you can move that metal top brace in the panel and avoids destroying it when bending it with your knee.

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Old 03-03-2019, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink View Post
Errr....yeah.

The trick is to lay the top of the panel, vinyl side out across two wood blocks on the floor about 1" high perpendicular to the panel about 6" to each side side of the area you want to bend....that limits how far you can move that metal top brace in the pedal and avoids destroying it...
Frankie,

I made a fixture years ago and we would remove the upper felt, smack the upper felt in the fixture to give it the correct bend, then we'd tweak the upper support and then re-install the felt What a pain..... It didn't do squat for the fact that the upper support didn't have the correct bend in it, but it did look a whole lot better.

The upper supports were FUBAR for years. The dang things had a compound bend in them along with the gigger around the vent window. They also didn't fit worth a hoot when installed.

This is the 65 we restored a few years back and removed AK panels from for the CA panels. I wish I had a picture from the top showing how well they fit but I don't. This is the same car we used our original 65 carpet set on to get ACC to make the corrections in the carpet. The humps now fit like a glove. Anyone can view these pictures at this link. (oh, the customer requesgted the chrome pull handles which are 66-67 design) http://repairs.willcoxcorvette.com/1...tion-pictures/

I'm especially proud of the way this car turned out. The guy that owns it is a personal friend so I did the soft top installation and the seat cover installation myself. (it's the only two jobs they'll let me do these days). lol I will say.. the top is Al's... and it's the only top I will install in my shop. I did the test fit for the Key tops for CA and while it was a good top, there were issues with the hardware, the rear straps were not the correct material and a few other things. I also did a write up about this for CA but I've not published it to date. The Key tops will work but they just don't work as well as the AK tops. One of the biggest issues I see with the people that install tops is that the start the installation from the center of the rear bow.... if you do this... you're screwed.... IMHO.

And if you look at all the pictures... you'll see that I quailed the question about ACC carpet being thinner than the original Stevens carpet sets. I took detailed pictures and while some people think the ACC carpet is thinner there is actually 1 more roll per inch than the original Stevens carpet. I have multiple sets of original examples here to compare to but ACC I believe was 8 rows per inch, and Stevens was actually 7... not that anyone is counting...


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Old 03-03-2019, 06:29 PM
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That looks very good - I'd be proud of it too...

The other issue with the AK panels is the very upper end at the back...this one was massaged to get about a good a fit as can be had...but that rear part is just plain off. On a 63 coupe that tubular molding on the insdie edge of the window frame should transition from the vertical to the horizontal and into the door panel....there is NO way to accomplish that with the AK panel... The second pic is an original panel in a 63 coupe. I couldn't force or bend the AK panel inward enough at that rear area to mate with the trim tube as the metal brace is already dead flat against the door shell; so that transition area is a good 3/4" off.

I don't know if the CA panels are better in this regard.



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Old 03-03-2019, 06:44 PM
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I understand... I sent CA original upper supports and they were duplicated to a T...

I hate to keep pounding on Al (I love the guy to death) but the CA panels on the mid year cars smoke his... He is by all means my soft top guy, and a ton of other parts... but for the mid year panels... Oh... and the CA seat foam... they both are perfect. You want a read for tonight read this on the foam. http://repairs.willcoxcorvette.com/w...-seat-foam.pdf

I agree, the rear flip up is caused by the upper support not having the compound bend it it like it should. Another issue we dealt with for years that has gone by the wayside.

Ernie
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:50 PM
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I prefer AK soft tops to any others as well - and their C1 dash pads too but when you look at the retail - no discount price for the "deluxe" 63 coupe panels from them you would expect perfection and that they would make you coffee and toast in the mornings...
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Old 03-03-2019, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink View Post
I prefer AK soft tops to any others as well - and their C1 dash pads too but when you look at the retail - no discount price for the "deluxe" 63 coupe panels from them you would expect perfection and that they would make you coffee and toast in the mornings...
Frankie...

I hate to say it.. but I did the test fit for CA on the c1 dash pads.... Like the door panels they fit like a glove now. I have one in my own 62 and probably installed 6 in a few months trying to work the bugs out.... What a pain....... I'll never forget it.

The new pads are like slippin Jimmy now (you slip them on and they fit) and are made on an aluminum mold (instead of a laytex) in the past which will deteriorate over time.

Over my life time, I've installed original NOS pads (which sucked), AK pads, and even Romeo pads... the Ca C1 pad smokes them all now.... Years ago I would have agreed with you because the only thing needed to install the AK pad was to remove material (foam) from the center to get it to fit.... But the new pads are for the C1 are awesome.

A few months ago I went to another friends house and helped him do the install, we had it done in 2 hours.... Not much trimming and not many issues. I also did a write up on this on my tech page when we did the "green bean". There are also a few tricks to doing this installation (the right hand dash insert tool) that'll go well with doing the installation as well as how to trim the pad prior to install. One issue people make is to trim too much from the passenger side of the pad. The dash insert was designed to crimp the pad when installed. If you over trim the opening you'll make a huge mistake but if you make the puller tool I made years ago it'll pull the dash insert into position without issue. I posted pictures on my tech page from my original 62 dash pad as to the proper way to trim the pad when installing. I also posted pictures on this same page on the grain issue that some are **** about.... I compared my original (and I still have it) dash pad to that of the CA reproduction.... and the grain would be hard to tell. Again... like anything I post here... I also post it on the tech page.... you can review this info at this link... I believe it covers pretty much any questions about the C1 dash installation.. and if not.. .email me. [email protected]

It's funny, at the link below you'll also see the proto dash pads for the left hand side of the 68-77 cars... it's the picture with the white pad and black upper pad. Mike and Doug were there when we did this.. we we're making changes on the fly and next day air shipping the pads back and fourth so we could continue. I'm not sure how long they were there but this same trip the also showed me the NOS seat covers for the mid years as well as the newest reproductions they were making tooling from. I believe Nabor's supplied them with the NOS covers, and the new repro's (somewhere I have pictures of both I just can't find them) were awesome... they were exact in every detail.

http://repairs.willcoxcorvette.com/?yt=1962&s=dash+pad

Ernie

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Old 03-04-2019, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by buns View Post
Much info here:


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Enormous amount of useful info here! Thank you very much for taking the time to post it all!
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