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I thought those 454 SB motors were tall deck blocks?
Doubt they would fit in a stock looking C1 because of the stock hood, and it does push the alternator and remote expansion tank outwards so more mods would have to be done, and it would start looking like something other than a normal SB. I had to mill about 3/8' off the height of the Dart head valve cover mounting surface to keep the expansion tank and alternator in their stock locations, with a normal height block.
Other problem with big inch blocks under stock hood: the intake needs to be a high rise to get any power out of the big motor over 5000 RPM. The MSD throttle body I have is 1" shorter than a typical Holley, so i was able to use a normal height Vic Jr manifold on my SB, but the motor really wants the tall Vic Jr, which is another inch in height, to breath above 5500 RPM, and that won't fit under the hood. I even dropped the motor ~3/8" an inch to make everything fit. A tall deck motor would just exacerbate the problem.
It boils down to personal preference and choice. As a lifetime Pontiac guy, with Pontiacs, we have no choice. The same block was used from 1955-1981. It's neither a small block or a big block...but somewhere in between like an AMC 390. Pontiacs DO have 'Big Journal' blocks, with 3.25" mains, the 421-428-455, but they are externally identical to a 326. Or 350, 389, 400, etc. The hot tip today is to use a stroker crank in a 'small journal' block (3"mains---287--400 cid) and have 440-505 CID with a much stronger block than the opened up big journal block, and also far better oiling than the 3.25 mains big journal block. The advent of stroker cranks has made previously sought after 'Big' Pontiac engines much less desirable. The same thing has happened with the SBC. Many prefer a light, tight, big inch engine that fits a small engine bay and looks like a stock engine at a glance. I'm one of those guys. I also love a big block engine, but to own and drive an early 'vette on a regular basis, would prefer a small block. I still remember like yesterday the drive I took in an original '67 427 400HP 3x2 car in San Francisco in 1984 like it was yesterday. Car had 26,000 miles and the owner had me put new shocks on it before he gave it to his 21 year old son. That car was a MONSTER.
I also recently rode in a 496BBC '67 Chevelle that had 540 RWHP, and a 6 speed, and that car was a MONSTER as well. Hideously fast. Hard to go wrong with ANY performance package from the '50's-'70's for that visceral, fire-breathing dragon experience!!
The other advantage of a SB is the weight.Especially with aluminum heads.
THAT IS EXACTLY CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A 420SB with alum heads and lots of roller cam is hard to beat! NOT a killer 800hp engine, But it makes an incredible all around driver/performance/street engine.
I also recently rode in a 496BBC '67 Chevelle that had 540 RWHP, and a 6 speed, and that car was a MONSTER as well. Hideously fast. Hard to go wrong with ANY performance package from the '50's-'70's for that visceral, fire-breathing dragon experience!!
Which is why it is pointless to try and street race anymore, besides the fact it is dangerous. Two kids racing with 250 RWHP cars is far different than racing 500+ RWHP cars. Or even try and build a super HP street only machine The guy next to you could have almost anything, including 1000 HP+ turboed BB in a small car, it isn't like the old days.
500/600/700 HP in a 1960s car is pretty much a suicide machine if ANYTHING goes wrong, unless it is equipped with a modified frame and full roll cage and 5 point harness.
I used to get that certain feeling in your stomach from the G force pinning you in the seat during acceleration doing 12 second or faster 1/4 mile times. I can get a similar thrill going through roundabouts marked 20 MPH at 45-50, or clover leaf on and off ramps at 2.5 times posted speed in the Z06, now. (obviously with no other cars around).
Doug
[QUOTE=AZDoug;1599057162]That would make an easy LS swap into an early car. The LS performance is all about the heads, nothing else.
Doug[/QUOTE}
Agreed, if you like Gen 1, dont want ls swap hassles and SB2 stuff is too pricy this looks attractive. Dist and carb a +.
Agree with Doug, you can only get so much out of a 23 deg head. There are alternatives though without the LSx head just dont see many springing for them.
Which is why it is pointless to try and street race anymore, besides the fact it is dangerous. Two kids racing with 250 RWHP cars is far different than racing 500+ RWHP cars. Or even try and build a super HP street only machine The guy next to you could have almost anything, including 1000 HP+ turboed BB in a small car, it isn't like the old days.
500/600/700 HP in a 1960s car is pretty much a suicide machine if ANYTHING goes wrong, unless it is equipped with a modified frame and full roll cage and 5 point harness.
I used to get that certain feeling in your stomach from the G force pinning you in the seat during acceleration doing 12 second or faster 1/4 mile times. I can get a similar thrill going through roundabouts marked 20 MPH at 45-50, or clover leaf on and off ramps at 2.5 times posted speed in the Z06, now. (obviously with no other cars around).
Doug
I haven't street raced in decades. Last time I got caught at it was in 1980. Lost my license for a YEAR. Plus a huge fine. At least I smoked the guy.....Much too dangerous to do that kind of nonsense these days...very easy to kill somebody. I too have my moments of excitement, but they involve empty stretches of road, long vacant on-ramps, and no competing traffic. Or forays on private property. As an old dog in an old car, be it my Corvette or one of my other old cars, I realize that even the modest current V6 offerings can smoke me in every way. I am OK with that. We'll see if any of that plastic-fantastic modern drive by wire crap is around doing the work 50-60 years from now. I don't think so. Fast appliances is all they are.......
THAT IS EXACTLY CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A 420SB with alum heads and lots of roller cam is hard to beat! NOT a killer 800hp engine, But it makes an incredible all around driver/performance/street engine.
Originally Posted by AZDoug
That would make an easy LS swap into an early car. The LS performance is all about the heads, nothing else.
Doug
Uh, the aluminum LS block is way lighter than a SBC, 6 bolt mains, better oiling, cheaper than an aluminum SBC, and a larger base circle cam. Not to mention the heads being way better.
I have not street raced in about 5 years but get challenged all the time,usually some idiot traveling from bar to bar late at night just looking to go to jail.
Uh, the aluminum LS block is way lighter than a SBC, 6 bolt mains, better oiling, cheaper than an aluminum SBC, and a larger base circle cam. Not to mention the heads being way better.
400 CI in Gen 1 SB block with LS heads will make the exact same HP as a 400 CI all LS motor,, cam, bore, stroke and compression being equal. Putting an LS in a C1 requires a lot of modification vs dropping in that Mitchel Gen1/LS hybrid.
Doug
Tell you what I'll do, ALL you guys that need to dump a SB400 (rebuildable core of course) and can't find anyone to take it off your hands, send them to me and I'll pay the shipping--------------------------IN A HEARTBEAT!
I have a Shafiroff 427 sb with nearly 600hp in the Black Car with a 5 speed......... yea, very cool motor and it screams.... I can't wait to put it side by side with my LS5 in the Red Car this spring.....
Tell you what I'll do, ALL you guys that need to dump a SB400 (rebuildable core of course) and can't find anyone to take it off your hands, send them to me and I'll pay the shipping--------------------------IN A HEARTBEAT!
I tripped over this dinosaur egg this week. I'm going to get it ground and give it to a very good friend that was going to buy an offshore cast crank. Somehow they have figured out how to make cast iron even cheaper.
It may not be perfect but it's free and I'm paying for the grind.
You can’t really beat Blueprint for a streetable, performance engine on a budget. This is a 427 sbc dynoed with a Holley Sniper efi. They also make a 454 sbc.
Pretty nice performance for a fuel injected engine at less than $10k. Still working on installation. Should finish up tomorrow.
I haven't street raced in decades. Last time I got caught at it was in 1980. Lost my license for a YEAR. Plus a huge fine. At least I smoked the guy.....Much too dangerous to do that kind of nonsense these days...very easy to kill somebody. I too have my moments of excitement, but they involve empty stretches of road, long vacant on-ramps, and no competing traffic. Or forays on private property. As an old dog in an old car, be it my Corvette or one of my other old cars, I realize that even the modest current V6 offerings can smoke me in every way. I am OK with that. We'll see if any of that plastic-fantastic modern drive by wire crap is around doing the work 50-60 years from now. I don't think so. Fast appliances is all they are.......
Just had a guy in a jag pull up next to me at a light. He hit it hard, I didn’t (no point with a PG stock 283). The cop on the other side of the intersection wasn’t amused. I saw him shake his head as he pulled out.
03-16-2019, 04:38 PM
