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[C2] Alignment 1964 Coupe

 
Old 04-13-2019, 01:37 PM
  #1  
jack64
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Default Alignment 1964 Coupe

Completed vehicle's first alignment after restoration.
Is it correct?
Background:
1964 Coupe, frame off restoration.
Alignment was previously "eyeballed" during assembly
327/365 HP,
Manual Steer
Radial tires
Cruising only, (no more street racing at my age)

Based on Forum info, took car to alignment shop yesterday and presented the following parameters for my alignment:
Front - Caster 1.5. Camber 0 we Toe 1/32
Rear - Camber -0.5 Toe 1/32

Upon completion, the Tech presented me with a printout showing the following settings:
Front - Caster 1.5 Camber 0.7 Toe 0.46 (0.23 each side)
Rear - Camber. -0.2 Toe 0.16 (0.08 each side)

When I questioned him as to why he came up with different values than those I presented, he stated the shop uses a Hunter brand alignment machine, and these are the alignment values he obtained from Hunter.
Showed me the Hunter display showing parameters were correct for 1963-1965 Corvettes.

Would appreciate any input as to whether the Hunter parameters will adversely affect my ride.
Thank you..
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Old 04-13-2019, 03:05 PM
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08redrocket
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I think a quarter inch front toe is excessive for each side. That's a lot. My assembly manual is not close now, but I would check there to get the factory settings.
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Old 04-13-2019, 03:58 PM
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Powershift
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The final numbers you provided showed only a single set for front and rear...........yet you have two tires front and two tires rear. Are the settings identical or what is each side?? You can only have so much difference side to side also.

I wonder if the Hunter machine knows the difference between bias ply and radials.............as the ideal settings are a bit different for each. Although the Hunter machine has its own standards, you are specifically asking for a set of standards that are a bit different and based upon CF input. So they should honor your request and tell the machine to " butt out" The tech can align to your specs if he wants..........the machine does not control this. It only shows red (no go) or green (go) based on the numbers in its memory bank.

For radial tires, the front camber and toe are not ideal. Best thing is to take it out and drive it a bit and see how it steers and if you see any early wear. But camber and toe are incorrect for radials for street driving.

Larry
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Old 04-13-2019, 07:14 PM
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davekp78
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He should have discussed the difference in your request and the machine's recommendations.
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Old 04-13-2019, 07:21 PM
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Vette5311
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Alignment machines accept a “range”. They also have a function for “user specs” with a range. You have to specify before the alignment you will not accept a range but want the specs set as given. It may cost a bit more or they may not do it (if the specs can be achieved is another matter - frame sag etc). What you got was a “production” alignment otherwise known as “close enough”
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:04 AM
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3JsVette
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What Vette5311 said. Depending on where you went for the alignment with the newer alignment machines they just about tell the tech where to make the adjustments. The person making the adjustments doesn't have to have any background with the type of vehicle being worked on. At the end of the day you may have to find an alignment shop that specializes in "custom" alignments. You can check with the local Corvette club, Street Rod club or even Porsche club for recommendations. Of course the expense most likely will be based on time rather than a flat fee.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:33 AM
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SWCDuke
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You didn't state if the toe is in degrees or inches.. SO?

The guy should have used your numbers or explained why not, and given you the option of going somewhere else if he refused to follow your instructions... suggest you talk to the shop manager and have the job done again to your specs, which are good for what I call "touring" with radial tires.

The Hunter specs are over fifty years old and for BIAS PLY tires.

Duke
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:37 AM
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Factoid
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Those specs are for bias tires and I suspect you were a victim of a “punch and play” operator, not a true alignment technician.

Since you are already invested in this shop, I would return and ask for the baseline alignment printout that will show not only each wheel, but front to rear and then request that they override the stock machine alignment and enter your specifications as you requested the first time. If they tell you they cannot, then ask for your money back.
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Old 04-14-2019, 01:55 PM
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jack64
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Duke,
Their machine calculates in degrees.
As such, their toe figure shown is degrees.

I plan to register the car this week.
Have already informed them I will be returning if not satisfied

Thank you to all who responded.
Have owned my Corvette for 49 years, 43 of which has been in storage.
Cannot wait...will be drawing upon you folks for future needs.
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Old 04-14-2019, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jack64 View Post
Duke,
Their machine calculates in degrees.
As such, their toe figure shown is degrees.

I plan to register the car this week.
Have already informed them I will be returning if not satisfied

Thank you to all who responded.
Have owned my Corvette for 49 years, 43 of which has been in storage.
Cannot wait...will be drawing upon you folks for future needs.
Their machine will also calculate in inches if the operator tells it to.

As a separate note, for most of our C2 cars with OEM type tires, 1/32 inch toe-in per wheel is equal to about 0.08 degrees.

Larry
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Old 04-14-2019, 05:30 PM
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MOXIE62
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Where did you have it aligned at. I had mine done at Plaza. I do not remember the toe but it was not that much, assuming yours is in inches. The numbers for front and rear were different.
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Old 04-14-2019, 06:48 PM
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tbarb
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For a stock street driven midyear I don't see anything wrong with those finish specs.
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:27 AM
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SWCDuke
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Originally Posted by jack64 View Post
Duke,
Their machine calculates in degrees.
As such, their toe figure shown is degrees.

.
That's what I figured, but it needed to be confirmed. Most modern machines output toe in degrees, but I think they can also be set to output inches or millimeters.

Converting degrees to inches is easy. You learned it in high school geometry. For small angles the length of the secant subtended is essentially equal to the arc length, which is the angle in radians times radius:

Toe (inches) = toe in degrees (2pi/360)(tire radius), and I bet the alignment tech is clueless about this relationship.

So for a 27" OD tire the rear toe looks good : .019" or about 2/3s of a 32nd", and having it equal on both sides is ideal.

But the front toe works out to .0055", nearly 2/32s" per side, which is about double the nominal setting of 1/32" per side for radial tires.

Positive toe numbers in degrees or inches means toe-in and negative is toe-out.

Check my arithmetic.

Duke
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:39 AM
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:49 AM
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jack64
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Thanks to all respondents.
Your knowledge is invaluable.
Regards
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:54 AM
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jack64
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Moxie,
Aligned at local shop in Plymouth, Ma.
Sullivan Tire
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:43 PM
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08redrocket
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To avoid confusion and math, I always tell the tech that the toe is in inches and the camber and castor are in degrees.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:47 PM
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desertpilgrim
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Did you have a half-full gas tank when the rear was aligned?
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Old 04-15-2019, 05:47 PM
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Powershift
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Originally Posted by desertpilgrim View Post
Did you have a half-full gas tank when the rear was aligned?
Let's not get too technical.........

Maybe OP should have made a quick trip to the public scales to check front and rear weight and total car weight and adjusted to spec before the alignment.

More important is the condition of the ball joints, tie-rod ends, and rubber suspension bushings to maintain the alignment after it is done.

Larry
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:23 PM
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GTOguy
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Been aligning cars since 1983. Off the top of my head, up front : too much positive camber (you want closer to 0) and way too much positive toe. You'll scrub your tires set up like that. I personally like to set the toe very slightly positive, whatever unit you use. Total of about 1/8" max, preferably a bit less. My 2 cents, based on real world experience with a LOT of cars. Your rear alignment is OK.
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