OT - I cannot resist, and I apologize upfront
05-01-2019, 08:26 AM
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OT - I cannot resist, and I apologize upfront
Some of the questions that I see posted on the forum are so "strange" or "basic" that I wonder if the OP knows which end of the car is the front end.
Reminds me of a story I heard many years ago about a new personal computer. This was just about the time that personal computers were becoming reasonably available, but were still pretty scarce (say 1985-1986 time frame). They were bulky, clunky, with lots of cords, no battery backup, everything was hard connected (keyboard and mouse), and a basic operating system, perhaps even something like DOS (no windows O/S yet). Networks (and the Internet) were still well in the future.
The owner of the personal computer calls the customer service number for the company that makes his brand new PC. The call comes into the customer service center in early evening, about the time it is getting dark outside. It is getting dark at both the CS rep's, and at the customer's, location.
He tells the CS rep that his personal computer is not working. It was working fine, and now it has stopped working. The customer is upset / irate about this. He just spent a bunch of money of this computer, and now it doesn't work, even though it is a couple of days old.
The CS rep asks some basic questions, and finally understands that the PC is doing nothing. There is no cursor on the screen, the computer is not making any noise, etc.
So the CS rep quietly and as politely as possible asks if the owner has turned on the PC, in other words is the power switch is the ON position?
The customer gets even more irate and tells the CS rep, "Of course it is turned on, what kind of idiot do you think I am?"
The CS rep apologizes for the question, telling the customer that the CS rep does NOT think he is an idiot, but he is just checking all of the possibilities.
The CS rep then asks the customer to confirm that the computer is still plugged in. Before the customer can fuss about this question, the CS rep explains that sometimes computers become unplugged from the wall, and if that happened, then the computer would not work.
The customer, slightly mollified by this response, agrees that the computer will not work if the computer is not plugged in. The customer then asks the CS rep to hold on for a minute.
The customer puts down the phone, and the CS rep is basically waiting for the customer to return. The customer returns and tells the CS rep that the computer is definitely plugged into the wall socket.
The CS rep says he is puzzled by this, and then asks the customer to get some information off of the label on the back of the computer. The customer starts to read back the information from the label to the CS rep, and then says something like "But the rest of it is hard to read".
The CS rep asks why it is hard to read, and tells the customer that the label should be very clear and easy to read.
The customer says that normally that would be true, but right now he (the customer) is trying to read the label with a flashlight.
The CS rep thinks for a second, and then asks the customer "Why are you reading the label with a flashlight, isn't the normal lighting good enough to read the label.
The customer then says that "Yes, normally that would be true, but the power is out to the entire building, so I (the customer) can only see the label with a flashlight".
The light bulb goes on in the CS rep's head, and he tries as gently and patiently as possible to explain to the customer that the PC does not have a battery.
The customer then asks what that has to do with anything?
Sorry, but sometimes when I read some of the questions on the forum, this story immediately pops into my head.
Reminds me of a story I heard many years ago about a new personal computer. This was just about the time that personal computers were becoming reasonably available, but were still pretty scarce (say 1985-1986 time frame). They were bulky, clunky, with lots of cords, no battery backup, everything was hard connected (keyboard and mouse), and a basic operating system, perhaps even something like DOS (no windows O/S yet). Networks (and the Internet) were still well in the future.
The owner of the personal computer calls the customer service number for the company that makes his brand new PC. The call comes into the customer service center in early evening, about the time it is getting dark outside. It is getting dark at both the CS rep's, and at the customer's, location.
He tells the CS rep that his personal computer is not working. It was working fine, and now it has stopped working. The customer is upset / irate about this. He just spent a bunch of money of this computer, and now it doesn't work, even though it is a couple of days old.
The CS rep asks some basic questions, and finally understands that the PC is doing nothing. There is no cursor on the screen, the computer is not making any noise, etc.
So the CS rep quietly and as politely as possible asks if the owner has turned on the PC, in other words is the power switch is the ON position?
The customer gets even more irate and tells the CS rep, "Of course it is turned on, what kind of idiot do you think I am?"
The CS rep apologizes for the question, telling the customer that the CS rep does NOT think he is an idiot, but he is just checking all of the possibilities.
The CS rep then asks the customer to confirm that the computer is still plugged in. Before the customer can fuss about this question, the CS rep explains that sometimes computers become unplugged from the wall, and if that happened, then the computer would not work.
The customer, slightly mollified by this response, agrees that the computer will not work if the computer is not plugged in. The customer then asks the CS rep to hold on for a minute.
The customer puts down the phone, and the CS rep is basically waiting for the customer to return. The customer returns and tells the CS rep that the computer is definitely plugged into the wall socket.
The CS rep says he is puzzled by this, and then asks the customer to get some information off of the label on the back of the computer. The customer starts to read back the information from the label to the CS rep, and then says something like "But the rest of it is hard to read".
The CS rep asks why it is hard to read, and tells the customer that the label should be very clear and easy to read.
The customer says that normally that would be true, but right now he (the customer) is trying to read the label with a flashlight.
The CS rep thinks for a second, and then asks the customer "Why are you reading the label with a flashlight, isn't the normal lighting good enough to read the label.
The customer then says that "Yes, normally that would be true, but the power is out to the entire building, so I (the customer) can only see the label with a flashlight".
The light bulb goes on in the CS rep's head, and he tries as gently and patiently as possible to explain to the customer that the PC does not have a battery.
The customer then asks what that has to do with anything?
Sorry, but sometimes when I read some of the questions on the forum, this story immediately pops into my head.
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05-01-2019, 12:12 PM
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It should be expected to worsen over time.
I, for one, understand wiring, and get kind of mystified when someone says that they can't use a multimeter to do simple ground, continuity, or voltage checks.
Many younger people are not raised knowing these skills anymore.
I would offer that, if we want the sport to survive, we have two clear choices:
! - tell them they're not worthy, they're not "true Corvette guys" according to our own definitions, or:
2 - We can try to be helpful.
Of course, it helps if they at least try to help themselves, like tell us what kind of car they're working on.
I, for one, understand wiring, and get kind of mystified when someone says that they can't use a multimeter to do simple ground, continuity, or voltage checks.
Many younger people are not raised knowing these skills anymore.
I would offer that, if we want the sport to survive, we have two clear choices:
! - tell them they're not worthy, they're not "true Corvette guys" according to our own definitions, or:
2 - We can try to be helpful.
Of course, it helps if they at least try to help themselves, like tell us what kind of car they're working on.
My point being, there are skills that we think are painfully obvious like changing a tire and making change for a dollar that the kids are completely untrained for. At the same time, those kids generally can make many people of our age group be able to actually use their computers or home electronics. Without their help, many awesome gadgets of today would sit in the box unplugged.
And at the same time, many in our age group can rebuild entire cars and perform mechanical tasks and have skills that make the kids think they are wizards or something.
My point is, each group has skills and weaknesses. Throwing too many rocks might come back to bite ya.
05-01-2019, 08:35 AM
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Yeah it seems on here that the most simplest solutions are over looked. Like reading your owners manual for one
05-01-2019, 08:36 AM
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It should be expected to worsen over time.
I, for one, understand wiring, and get kind of mystified when someone says that they can't use a multimeter to do simple ground, continuity, or voltage checks.
Many younger people are not raised knowing these skills anymore.
I would offer that, if we want the sport to survive, we have two clear choices:
! - tell them they're not worthy, they're not "true Corvette guys" according to our own definitions, or:
2 - We can try to be helpful.
Of course, it helps if they at least try to help themselves, like tell us what kind of car they're working on.
I, for one, understand wiring, and get kind of mystified when someone says that they can't use a multimeter to do simple ground, continuity, or voltage checks.
Many younger people are not raised knowing these skills anymore.
I would offer that, if we want the sport to survive, we have two clear choices:
! - tell them they're not worthy, they're not "true Corvette guys" according to our own definitions, or:
2 - We can try to be helpful.
Of course, it helps if they at least try to help themselves, like tell us what kind of car they're working on.
Last edited by Easy Rhino; 05-01-2019 at 08:37 AM.
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05-01-2019, 08:37 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
In the version of this story I read years ago, the CS rep finished by telling the customer to box up the computer and take it back to the store where he bought it. When asked why, he replied, "Because you're too ****ing stupid to have one."
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Powershift (05-01-2019)
05-01-2019, 12:12 PM
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It should be expected to worsen over time.
I, for one, understand wiring, and get kind of mystified when someone says that they can't use a multimeter to do simple ground, continuity, or voltage checks.
Many younger people are not raised knowing these skills anymore.
I would offer that, if we want the sport to survive, we have two clear choices:
! - tell them they're not worthy, they're not "true Corvette guys" according to our own definitions, or:
2 - We can try to be helpful.
Of course, it helps if they at least try to help themselves, like tell us what kind of car they're working on.
I, for one, understand wiring, and get kind of mystified when someone says that they can't use a multimeter to do simple ground, continuity, or voltage checks.
Many younger people are not raised knowing these skills anymore.
I would offer that, if we want the sport to survive, we have two clear choices:
! - tell them they're not worthy, they're not "true Corvette guys" according to our own definitions, or:
2 - We can try to be helpful.
Of course, it helps if they at least try to help themselves, like tell us what kind of car they're working on.
My point being, there are skills that we think are painfully obvious like changing a tire and making change for a dollar that the kids are completely untrained for. At the same time, those kids generally can make many people of our age group be able to actually use their computers or home electronics. Without their help, many awesome gadgets of today would sit in the box unplugged.
And at the same time, many in our age group can rebuild entire cars and perform mechanical tasks and have skills that make the kids think they are wizards or something.
My point is, each group has skills and weaknesses. Throwing too many rocks might come back to bite ya.
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05-01-2019, 12:27 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
At work, the resolution for that call would be "PICNIC":
Problem
In
Chair
Not
In
Computer
Or
Loose Nut Behind Keyboard
Problem
In
Chair
Not
In
Computer
Or
Loose Nut Behind Keyboard
05-01-2019, 12:38 PM
#8
Melting Slicks<br><img src="/forums/images/ranks/3k-4k.gif" border="0">
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emccomas, I'm guessing when you (and the rest of us) first started tinkering with cars, you weren't an expert either. The only difference is people now days have the Internet and forums like this one to ask questions about a problem before trying to fix it on their own and probably %&$*ing it up like we used to do. With the cost of parts for our cars, it is much smarter to post questions, even those you think "strange or basic", before they screw something up which may then cost big bucks to fix when it may have been a simple and easy fix to begin with. I think they are smart to post questions here
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05-01-2019, 12:41 PM
#9
tl:dr
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05-01-2019, 01:20 PM
#11
Safety Car
Back in the real early (Apple II) personal computer days I wrote computer software that was written in interpreted basic, which meant that the operator could actually read the code if he knew how. A client called me one day and told me the program had crashed, and what should he do. Over the phone I told him to type in "RUN" and press the ENTER key. This essentially restarts the program. Over the phone I can hear him typing and I can tell he is typing more than 3 letters, so I tell him to tell me exactly what he is typing in as he types it, and the key sequence he is using is: ARE YOU IN. Guess my directions were not clear enough.
Charles
Charles
05-01-2019, 01:24 PM
#12
It's part of learning. As simple as a question may be, there was a time you may not have known the answer either.
I want to learn to paint. I could read all about auto paining and spend three days with a SINGLE opinion, OR I could come here and ask what will be a stupid question to some, but get a round of answers that is not limited to one perspective.
I have no issue answering the simplest of questions. If I answer correctly, they'll only have to ask once.
I want to learn to paint. I could read all about auto paining and spend three days with a SINGLE opinion, OR I could come here and ask what will be a stupid question to some, but get a round of answers that is not limited to one perspective.
I have no issue answering the simplest of questions. If I answer correctly, they'll only have to ask once.
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warrenmj (05-01-2019)
05-01-2019, 02:13 PM
#13
Be patient with us who didn't grow up as engineers/mechanic's or hands on guy's. Some of us were cop's or other civil servants who need assistance from time to time. We appreciate your life experiences and depth of knowledge. Easy Rhino has me correctly pegged as one of those who has not yet learned how to use those tools. I'm trying as time permits! Sully
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05-01-2019, 02:29 PM
#14
Be patient with us who didn't grow up as engineers/mechanic's or hands on guy's. Some of us were cop's or other civil servants who need assistance from time to time. We appreciate your life experiences and depth of knowledge. Easy Rhino has me correctly pegged as one of those who has not yet learned how to use those tools. I'm trying as time permits! Sully
I had a BAD habit of overtightening everything.
05-01-2019, 03:07 PM
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There was a time when dad would only let me snug a bolt down or wind it in by hand As I would ring off any bolt asking if it was tight enough before it snapped
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05-01-2019, 03:38 PM
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Yeah, I think many of us "rookies" are just trying NOT to repeat what we did in our teenage and young adult years. I learned (and forgot) a lot things working on cars back in the 60's and fixing a f-up back then was not nearly as expensive as it is today. But, it's been a 40+ years since I really worked on a car and as strenuous as it is these days for me, I'd rather not have a do-over. So, I ask lots of questions, including some dumb ones.
BH
BH
05-01-2019, 03:40 PM
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Good points made by many of you in response, but I do want to point out that AGE has nothing to do with the basic issue I was referring to in my original post.
I was not thinking about older people vs. younger people when I typed the post.
I was thinking more along the lines of questions like (and this is an extreme example that did not actually occur, as far as I know):
"HI, I am 50 years old and I just bought my first Corvette. It is a 1957, the same year as I was born. I have always wanted one, and now I have one. My biggest problem right now is that I cannot find the trim tag so I can tell what color the car was originally, and I cannot figure out how to decode the VIN to see if my car is a real fuel injected car. The salesman I bought the car from assured me it was a numbers matching car, so I just need to find those numbers.
Can anyone tell me where I can find the trim tag on a 1957 Corvette, and point me to a web site to decode the VIN so I can confirm my car was originally fuel injected car?"
Like I said, an extreme example, but the idea should come across.
And honestly, in this example, I would actually applaud the poster if he asked these questions BEFORE buying the car.
I guess I am thinking about questions that display such a basic lack of knowledge of old Corvettes, or even cars in general, that I have to wonder why this person is even involved in old cars.
And I AM the person that says the only dumb question is the one you do not ask.
As many of you that know me could tell, I was not having a great morning when I wrote my original post. I would make it less terse and abrupt at this point, but the basic sentiment is still there.
And yes, it will come back to bit me in the butt. I am a rocket scientist (I really am), but I am still smart phone challenged. I know my phone can do lots of cool things, I just don't care to spend the time figuring out what they all are.
I was not thinking about older people vs. younger people when I typed the post.
I was thinking more along the lines of questions like (and this is an extreme example that did not actually occur, as far as I know):
"HI, I am 50 years old and I just bought my first Corvette. It is a 1957, the same year as I was born. I have always wanted one, and now I have one. My biggest problem right now is that I cannot find the trim tag so I can tell what color the car was originally, and I cannot figure out how to decode the VIN to see if my car is a real fuel injected car. The salesman I bought the car from assured me it was a numbers matching car, so I just need to find those numbers.
Can anyone tell me where I can find the trim tag on a 1957 Corvette, and point me to a web site to decode the VIN so I can confirm my car was originally fuel injected car?"
Like I said, an extreme example, but the idea should come across.
And honestly, in this example, I would actually applaud the poster if he asked these questions BEFORE buying the car.
I guess I am thinking about questions that display such a basic lack of knowledge of old Corvettes, or even cars in general, that I have to wonder why this person is even involved in old cars.
And I AM the person that says the only dumb question is the one you do not ask.
As many of you that know me could tell, I was not having a great morning when I wrote my original post. I would make it less terse and abrupt at this point, but the basic sentiment is still there.
And yes, it will come back to bit me in the butt. I am a rocket scientist (I really am), but I am still smart phone challenged. I know my phone can do lots of cool things, I just don't care to spend the time figuring out what they all are.
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Greg (05-01-2019)
05-01-2019, 03:41 PM
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Yeah, I think many of us "rookies" are just trying NOT to repeat what we did in our teenage and young adult years. I learned (and forgot) a lot things working on cars back in the 60's and fixing a f-up back then was not nearly as expensive as it is today. But, it's been a 40+ years since I really worked on a car and as strenuous as it is these days for me, I'd rather not have a do-over. So, I ask lots of questions, including some dumb ones.
BH
BH
And I want you to keep asking, you learn from it, as do many others.
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Dreaming60’s (05-01-2019)