GeneralT

I am new to this forum and the C2 Corvette world. I recently purchased a 1966 Corvette (Conv. 327/350 matching numbers) and learned only after purchasing it based on an Internet VIN search that the seller had purchased an original Trim tag that matched the color of the car and swapped the tag with the correct one that was on the car as a prior owner had changed the color of the car to a more desirable color. I was able to prove this because I found the original sale listing still archived for where he had purchased it from a dealer. This dealer noted in the description the color had been changed to the more desirable color and had a picture of the original trim tag. The seller I purchased it from is someone who sells muscle cars and especially Corvettes as a little hobby business. I don't want to say more about the seller or the car yet because I am still slightly hopeful the seller will compensate me for what he did. The car is an otherwise very nice high quality driver, which he did a very nice job bringing the quality up. He is very knowledgable and my experience was otherwise great with him. My question for anyone who can help is what might I expect the difference in value to be of the car being the original color vs my current situation for a driver that is never going to be turned into an NCRS car? If I go to resell this car how much will it matter as a driver (in value) that the color is not original to the car? I am trying to consider how strongly I should seek restitution. The seller has admitted what he did but essentially blames me for not doing my due diligence ahead of time and told me what he did when I asked him directly (after the sale of course)... and his description of the car suggests the colors are original without using the word "original". He references the colors per the trim tag. He is thus claiming he disclosed what he did when I asked him about it (after the car had been paid for and shipped). Of course, what could he say as he was completely caught (confronted on the phone with no time to think). His response was that the trim tag was "original" as if that mattered. He even told me what he paid for it and provided proof ($1,000) and said it was hard to find. He offered to give me the original trim tag and sent me a picture of it. A Corvette restoration shop he works with found the tag for him. So they are part of this too as they installed it as well. Any insight into the approximate dollar value of this problem would be greatly appreciated! The car was purchased in the low 60's range and I am otherwise happy with it thus far.

emdoller

Hmmmm... if it’s an original tag and he and you are the only ones who know I’d say no impact. Kinda sucks that he didn’t tell you.

Regarding value, it really depends. Many don’t care but many do. For those that do care, value is significantly impacted as they’d likely pass on your car period.

Good luck.

Ed

GeneralT

Ed, thank you for the reply. My problem is that unfortunately I do now know and so I couldn't sell it without disclosing it. I would be better off if I never discovered it! Using Hagerty as a resource, the car would be worth $60K ($52K plus option adds). The car represents "Good" condition exactly as they describe it. Hagerty doesn't appear to note whether it matters if the exterior color is original or not. I do get what you are saying about an all or nothing proposition for many buyers, which makes it very difficult to answer the question.

emdoller

I understand. I too would disclose. As I said if someone wants original they’d likely pass on your car but you never know. There are many who don’t care.

Whats the original color color and what is it now?

Ed

Greg

I agree with Ed.
If the previous owner installed an original GM trim tag rather than a reproduction tag I'd live with it. Other than being somewhat unethical by not disclosing this before the sale, where is the harm if you're not having the car judged?
You loved the car before you found this info, don't let it spoil things for you now.
Greg

bb62

You may also have problems with the "original" tag that is in place because the dates on the tag may not match the production dates for the car. That would easily trigger someone to suggest that the car is a fraud. When was the car produced (i.e. what is the serial number)? What is the date code on the trim tag that is in place?

Personally, I am one of those who would not purchase the car under any circumstances given the misrepresentation. But that doesn't mean that the car is not a fun toy or that most anyone viewing the car would care. But you can forget NCRS or Bloomington Gold as venues to show the car. Do you have the original tag taken off the car? Can you get it? If so, the value hit to the car would be the cost to repaint to the correct color. Given that $10K is a reasonable cost to repaint, that plus the inability to use the original tag (if you cannot get it) would probably drive the penalty to (IMHO) to about $12K.

emdoller

Bb62 is correct. Do the date codes on trim tag match the rest of the car?

Ed

dtortoise9

I sold a 55 t bird with a color and trim tag change. I told any potential buyers what I did and would include the original trim tag with the sale.. I wasn't trying to hide anything as it looks this dealer was upfront with the buyer. I don't see anything wrong with naming who the dealer so maybe he will be upfront next time- maybe.......

GeneralT

It was white/red now it is black/red. And the black/red was what I wanted and I was willing to pay a little more to get it (and I did). Of course I believed it to be original. I guess you could make the argument if the original trim tag represents one of the 1,190 black ones built in '66 then the pool hasn't been added to... devaluing the others. And given all the interior choices for a black car there just can't be that many in the black/red combo. It is a such a strange situation because when a car is repainted as all the paint is stripped off... thus there is nothing original left on the car as to the paint when they repaint it... so that leaves the rarity issue. The original trim tag means the pool hasn't changed... but still...

My dilemma is what to do with the seller. I have a recourse option based on the way I bought it but I want to be reasonable about it. I don't need a huge hassle either. The seller is acting about as you would expect for someone who did what he did and got caught... especially after telling me what a "straight shooter" he was. He wants to somehow blame me. I am trying to decide, what if anything, to seek from him as I have not made any specific demand yet.

Frankie the Fink

I agree with bb62 about the value "hit" numerically....

You will have a battle with the seller getting recompensed for the situation since he feels he disclosed it to you....and I see no way that this fella would ever consider giving back the amount the car devalued (e.g. the $10K-$12K) as that's prob all or most of his profit.

An original factory color but not original to THIS car - very clever and smarmy...

Another object lesson for having somebody "in the know" inspect a car prior to completing the deal...

GeneralT

Greg, Thanks for the reply. I see the "potential" harm as being financial if and when I go to sell it. This is just a financial issue. I am trying to determine if I disclose what he didn't, which I would, what will that cost me... if anything? If it is not going to cost me any meaningful money then I am not going to push it further.

Separately, it is disconcerting that you have professional Corvette people doing this. It is likely more common than people know.

LT-1 kid

these are old cars almost 60 years old a lot of things done by owners over the years, if its not a NCRS jugged car I would say no impact on value
I would rather have a no issues with the vin tag over the trim tag, I never thought trim tags were a big deal., sounds like a nice car enjoy it

Swept57

He paid $1000 for a trim tag? I'll sell mine for that! If it were me, I would absolutely get the original trim tag and reinstall it. If he voluntarily compensates you beyond the giving you the trim tag, that would be great, but I doubt I would pursue legal action.

GeneralT

bb62, the seller said he would give me the original tag that was on the car when he purchased it and sent me a picture of it to prove he had it. He said he would send it with the title, but I don't have it yet. K14 is the code on the original tag and J16 on the one that is on the car now. Dates are a problem.

I think your method for valuation is the only one I have seen yet that makes sense, although the white/red would be less desirable... although you never know what somebody wants.

Also, the seller isn't claiming he disclosed this to me prior to the sale... only that he did after I confronted him about it (didn't lie), which is true. But I don't see how that makes it better as he was completely caught since I had found the complete listing still archived from where he bought it only about 6 months earlier. What were his options. He tried to argue that since the trim tag on the car now was original that it didn't matter.

GeneralT

Swept57, Yes he paid $1,000 for the tag (sent me proof) and said originals (depending on what they are) can go for up to $5,000. This suggests there is meaningful and regular fraud occurring. He said the Corvette restoration guy he uses has a network to find these tags and that it had taken him awhile to find this '66 black/red tag.

My option is eBay's insurance since although I didn't find the car through eBay, I did purchase it from him through eBay so that I would have the protection as the seller is far away from me.

Frankie the Fink

If you could reverse the sale I'd do it, I doubt this yokel even really has the original trim tag....its prob off a wreck or some other car where he screwed someone else over...

I hate these types of charlatans...

GeneralT

Frankie, he does have the original trim tag. I have the picture of the car showing it before he bought it and I have a picture from him showing it next to one of his checks that memorializes the purchase of the new one. He sent this to me after the issue came up to prove he had it and they he had purchased an original trim tag for the car.

If the seller does not do the right thing I will name him and he will be free to come on here and respond as well as responding to the eBay review. Of course anyone can easily enough figure it out at this point... how many black/red 66's have sold recently? The key is if he now does the right thing or not and works it out with me or just suggests I deserve what I got because I didn't do enough due diligence... trusted him and his reputation.

SledgeHammer 2.0

I would say it's a big deal if YOU, the buyer believed that you paid extra $$ because it was an original black car and that's what you wanted, An original black/red car.
When you go to sell it, If you plan on disclosing that the car was originally white that was painted black, some if not most Corvette buyers will care. You are going to take a hit in value and your potential buyers will be reduced.
I would think the monetary deduction would be in the 10K range, but you should consult with a professional.

Seller knows what he did.

Swept57

If you are otherwise happy with the car, and you can get the original tag back and reinstall it, I don't think you will take much of a value hit by keeping it. The bogus trim tag will raise a red flag to many people. But to Frankie's comment, I am not sure you can 100% verify that what tag he sends you is the original. I don't follow all the numbers stuff that closely.

Nowhere Man

I would get he born with tag back and live and learn