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[C2] Bang and Crunch Sound

 
Old 07-03-2019, 02:32 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by 59BlueSilver View Post
I think so, too. Iíve removed and installed the T10 in my 59. Is removing and installing a Muncie in a 65 less effort, equal to, or more difficult?
More difficult.
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Old 07-03-2019, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DansYellow66 View Post
Fortunately lots of good parts available now for rebuilding or upgrading an old Muncie.
Would this be a good time to turn a close ratio into a wide ratio, or is that possible and not cost prohibitive?
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Old 07-03-2019, 04:25 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by 59BlueSilver View Post
Would this be a good time to turn a close ratio into a wide ratio, or is that possible and not cost prohibitive?
If you need a new geartrain, not cost prohibitive at all. It will cost the same $$$ regardless if hard parts are damaged and need to be replaced. Depending on the amount of damage, complete overhaul of the case (bushing the countershaft) and upgrading the mid-plate to a stronger design would be prudent.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by GTOguy View Post
If you need a new geartrain, not cost prohibitive at all. It will cost the same $$$ regardless if hard parts are damaged and need to be replaced. Depending on the amount of damage, complete overhaul of the case (bushing the countershaft) and upgrading the mid-plate to a stronger design would be prudent.
Iíve got a 496 BB, would a wide ratio be better? What gears are different? By mid plate, do you mean that section between the main case and tail case?
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:17 PM
  #45  
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Yep. They make steel ones. For your engine, I would source a new M-22. An M-20-21 is marginal behind your kind of power and torque, IMO. I would: 1. diagnose the problem. 2. once the problem is found, I would remove the unit, be it the trans or the rear end. 3. I would disassemble/inspect the unit, and go from there. We can talk all day, but until we actually know WHAT is broken, it's all hot air.
Paul at 5speeds.com is THE guy for manual transmission parts, complete units, and technical help.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:25 PM
  #46  
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Well, that sounds good except I’m not doing it, it’s in a transmission shop.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:34 PM
  #47  
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Time to wait and see what they have to say when they get into it.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:35 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by 59BlueSilver View Post
Well, that sounds good except Iím not doing it, itís in a transmission shop.
If you pay the invoice, you get to specify the work.

Let us know what they find?

I expect the input shaft bearing went away and took out teeth on the large input end of the cluster gear (in my youth I assembled and sold desk lamps made out of broken cluster gears).
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:03 PM
  #49  
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If it needs bunch of new internals, may as well upgrade to M22. It will be little noisier, but personally, i don't mind the sound.

Why would you want a wide ratio with that much torque? Unless you have a 3.08 or 2.73 rear end. Or, unless the motor is a pig below 2500 RPM because of too much cam.

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Old 07-03-2019, 07:15 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by 59BlueSilver View Post
Iíve got a 496 BB, would a wide ratio be better? What gears are different? By mid plate, do you mean that section between the main case and tail case?
Probably depend on your rear axle ratio and type of driving you do. I built an M22 wide ratio a couple years ago and it's an improvement over an M20 in my opinion - gap between 3rd and 4th is closed up. I probably don't need the wide ratio with 4.11 gears but with the cam in my 427 it helps easing it off the line I feel pretty sure.
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:27 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by 59BlueSilver View Post
Well, that sounds good except Iím not doing it, itís in a transmission shop.
FWIW... the 67 Muncie wide ratio in my 56 Chevy hot rod was grinding going into 4th gear, and otherwise misbehaving.

I pulled it and took it to a local trans shop about 2 years ago. The input shaft (4th gear) was shot. They said they could replace it...no problem.

The next day... they called back. Had the whole trans disassembled and said that the other gears were worn and chipped... but could be reused. I asked about replacing them all. That's what they advised. That's what I did.

IIRC, the gears were in the $200 to $300 range for parts. The entire rebuild cost me $1000.00 "out the door"...

Of course, removal and reinstallation were not included in that price.

Performs flawlessly in my old hot rod...

My point? Gear sets for Muncies are readily available and reasonable in price..
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:56 PM
  #52  
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I don’t race except for occasional street racing. Best I can tell my rear end is either a 3.08 or a 3.36. So, based on that, am I better off with a wide or close ratio? BTW, the tranny came out of a 67 Vette.

Also, it has always been a little difficult to shift since I got the car. I blamed the stock shifter but I suppose it could be the transmission. Anyway, do these shifters wear out a lot and need rebuilding?

Last edited by 59BlueSilver; 07-04-2019 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:04 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by 59BlueSilver View Post
I donít race except for occasional street racing. Best I can tell my rear end is either a 3.08 or a 3.36. So, based on that, am I better off with a wide or close ratio? BTW, the tranny came out of a 67 Vette.

Also, it has always been a little difficult to shift since I got the car. I blamed the stock shifter but I suppose it could be the transmission. Anyway, do these shifters wear out a lot and need rebuilding?
With those ratios a wide ratio trans will be better.
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Old 07-04-2019, 07:43 AM
  #54  
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Thank you. Now I’m assuming I have a close ratio. Anyway to tell?
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Old 07-04-2019, 07:59 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by 59BlueSilver View Post
Thank you. Now Iím assuming I have a close ratio. Anyway to tell?
You can examine the grooves on the input shaft. For a 67 era trans, you should see 2 grooves for a wide ratio and 1 groove for a close ratio..

BUT... that trans is 50 years old, and Lord knows what was done to it previously... Previous rebuilds, input shaft swaps/replacements, etc.

Wait until it's torn apart to get the REAL answer.
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Old 07-04-2019, 08:48 AM
  #56  
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Let us know what the trans shop says BEFORE you agree to the repairs and $$$ involved.
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:17 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by 68hemi View Post
With those ratios a wide ratio trans will be better.


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Old 07-04-2019, 02:43 PM
  #58  
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Suggest having the transmission shop determine your rear ratio and also the transmission gear set (WR or CR). Locking it in first gear it will either take 2.2 turns of the input for 1 turn of the output (CR) or 2.5 turns of the input for 1 turn of the output (WR). If you really have a CR and 3.36 or higher rear, a wide ratio as suggested by others is probably a good choice. If your "big" engine is not too badly cammed (maybe a hydraulic roller?) and has good torque you can get by with a CR and 3.31 gears but around town it will take more than normal clutch slipping and care in getting away from a stop.

If you decide to invest some money in the transmission and build a WR one, I would recommend the Autogear M22W (wide ratio). The gears are made in Italy and are really nice.




I sort of splurged and used a new Autogear Supercase also.





Without looking up my invoice I think my parts bill for new case, rebuilt kit, new gear set, new bearing retainer, etc was around $1200. I worked with Larry at D&L Transmissions and he recommended re-using my tailhousing, mid-plate and side plate as long as they were in good condition. The Autogear tailhousing is noticeably bulkier and he said had been a little bit of an issue with Corvette tight tunnel clearances. It seemed like he said he had seen some issues with the billet mid-plates by Autogear but I know Paul's 5-speeds has developed a billet mid-plate also, and it looked really nice if one is needed. They are probably not an issue now.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:40 PM
  #59  
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My 1st 63 was hit in rear and the tail housing was changed it did make a difference with the correct rebuild kit.
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Old 07-04-2019, 04:07 PM
  #60  
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No doubt you will find ancillary issues you'll want fixed, one common problem is the countershaft hole is worn resulting in leaks and a bit of looseness, a new case is one fix but some put a bushing in that hole:

There are nice upgraded side covers with roller bearings or bushings available too - that's what I went with:


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