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[C2] Can the engine stamp be seen with K19 AIR / smog unit in place?

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[C2] Can the engine stamp be seen with K19 AIR / smog unit in place?

 
Old 07-08-2019, 11:21 AM
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CADbrian
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Default Can the engine stamp be seen with K19 AIR / smog unit in place?

Hello C1/C2 Forum, I am communicating with a prospective seller with a 1967 L79 Coupe with the A.I.R. Smog unit (and all its related hoses) still in place. As anyone would do while performing due diligence, I've asked to see a picture of the engine stamp. The prospective seller is telling me "I would have to remove the A.I.R. pump and brackets to get to the engine pad. Cant even see it under there."

I know that K19 smog unit is bulky but I didn't know it completely blocked the engine stamp pad. Is this true, that he can't see the engine stamp pad with this unit in place?

Does anyone have any other suggestions other than requiring the prospective seller loosen the smog unit to gain viewing access to the engine stamp pad?

He has some documentation. Will any of the documents show the engine stamp pad numbers?

Ultimately, before I spend the time and money to send an expert to inspect and verify the car's authenticity I need to know that I'm not wasting my time, money, and efforts on a car that isn't numbers matching...

Any assistance is appreciated.

Thanks.
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Old 07-08-2019, 11:32 AM
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Bluestripe67
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In the interim, post the block casting number, casting date, vin number and trim tag. If the documention is ligit, and it shows the vin, that same vin will be on the stamp pad. Also, if the above show a proper date sequence, it would be part of the equation. Dennis
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Old 07-08-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluestripe67 View Post
In the interim, post the block casting number, casting date, vin number and trim tag. If the documention is ligit, and it shows the vin, that same vin will be on the stamp pad. Also, if the above show a proper date sequence, it would be part of the equation. Dennis
I am so sorry, and embarrassed, to admit that I don't understand the helpful information above and how it relates to seeing the engine stamp pad...

Sorry to be a newbie, but could you dumb it down for me?

Thanks.
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Old 07-08-2019, 11:44 AM
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I've asked to receive from the seller photos of the VIN tag, trim tag, and engine stamp. As of this moment, I've only been given a trim trig photo. I am still waiting on a VIN tag photo in addition to a picture of the engine stamp. I do not yet have a block casting number or casting date from the prospective seller.
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Old 07-08-2019, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by CADbrian View Post
I am so sorry, and embarrassed, to admit that I don't understand the helpful information above and how it relates to seeing the engine stamp pad...

Sorry to be a newbie, but could you dumb it down for me?

Thanks.
I agree but maybe you could ask the guy if he could get someone with a borescope to look at it. Only way to really see it is to take the bracket off.
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Old 07-08-2019, 11:52 AM
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On the driver side at the back of the block, below the head is a seven digit number called the casting number. It should be 3890462. On the passenger side is a alpha numeric casting of three characters that code to the block casting date. The date should preceded the date of the assembly of the car. The assembly date is on the trim tag (under glove box with vin tag next to it) on the upper left and will be a three character alpha numeric. The block stamp pad will have the engine date in code. All these are related sequentialy. Get pics and post them. We can decipher all this for you. Dennis
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Old 07-08-2019, 11:59 AM
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Having block casting date and casting number along with car VIN number will tell you if engine is reasonably close to being original. Just the numbers alone. Obviously pics or personal inspection is needed to confirm.

Not too many 1967 327/350 cars with K-19 around, still with K19 unit intact, and it is likely not altered/re-stamped. But you do need to check this before purchase. Only about 500 were produced with K19 and 327/350 engine according to Noland.

Larry
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Old 07-08-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluestripe67 View Post
On the driver side at the back of the block, below the head is a seven digit number called the casting number. It should be 3890462. On the passenger side is a alpha numeric casting of three characters that code to the block casting date. The date should preceded the date of the assembly of the car. The assembly date is on the trim tag (under glove box with vin tag next to it) on the upper left and will be a three character alpha numeric. The block stamp pad will have the engine date in code. All these are related sequentialy. Get pics and post them. We can decipher all this for you. Dennis
Dennis, 3890462 is the head numbers for a 327, not the block. The block would be 3892657.
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Old 07-08-2019, 12:41 PM
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CAD
If the car is/was L79 with K19, then suffix characters should be "HD"
If the car is/was L79 with K19 with C60 (air conditioned), then suffix s/b "KH"

The block stamp pad is located on RH side of block & should be visible sighting just forward of the RH cylinder head. Perhaps your prospective car has C60 & the RH side is not photo compliant due to a/c condenser & such in the way? If non-a/c vehicle, should be able to see & photograph same. In photo above, note the block's flat pad surface -- look forward of the valve cvr & aft of the fuel line to carb. That is where the Flint engine plant date & configuration stamping is located, along with VIN.
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by A-Snake View Post
Dennis, 3890462 is the head numbers for a 327, not the block. The block would be 3892657.
A-snake, thanks for the correction, you are correct! Not sure what my brain had in mind, if anything. Dennis
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by vark_wso View Post

CAD
If the car is/was L79 with K19, then suffix characters should be "HD"
If the car is/was L79 with K19 with C60 (air conditioned), then suffix s/b "KH"

The block stamp pad is located on RH side of block & should be visible sighting just forward of the RH cylinder head. Perhaps your prospective car has C60 & the RH side is not photo compliant due to a/c condenser & such in the way? If non-a/c vehicle, should be able to see & photograph same. In photo above, note the block's flat pad surface -- look forward of the valve cvr & aft of the fuel line to carb. That is where the Flint engine plant date & configuration stamping is located, along with VIN.


Reportedly, the car does have air conditioning (C60), and I presume the A/C unit makes visualization of the engine stamp pad even more difficult???

Is this (yellow oval) where the engine stamp pad would be located and seen if not for the A/C unit?

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Old 07-08-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by vark_wso View Post

CAD
If the car is/was L79 with K19, then suffix characters should be "HD"
If the car is/was L79 with K19 with C60 (air conditioned), then suffix s/b "KH"
Correct. It'd be good to know what the suffix is, and then if the suffix matches with the rest of the information it will be just as imperative to get the full engine pad stamp information.

Which is easier? Loosen the brackets for the K19 smog / AIR unit or loosen the brackets for the A/C unit?
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CADbrian View Post
Reportedly, the car does have air conditioning (C60), and I presume the A/C unit makes visualization of the engine stamp pad even more difficult???

Is this (yellow oval) where the engine stamp pad would be located and seen if not for the A/C unit?
I Believe that's MY engine from my Silver 67

Last edited by 93RubyRedCoupe; 07-08-2019 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:48 PM
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I've asked to receive from the seller photos of the VIN tag, trim tag, and engine stamp. As of this moment, I've only been given a trim trig photo as the picture(s) that he took of the VIN tag didn't turn out well.

I am still waiting on a VIN tag photo in addition to a picture of the engine stamp.

I do not yet have a block casting number or casting date from the prospective seller. I don't even know if the seller is able or willing to provide me with this information as I'm still waiting to receive the "more basic" information (i.e. VIN and engine pad stamp) first.

If I can get photos of the VIN tag, trim tag, and engine stamp (and they all check out) then I would be happy to send (and spend the $ to send) an expert inspector to verify and authenticate the rest of the vehicle.

Isn't this the proper sequence of things to ask for (VIN tag, trim tag, engine stamp) then move on to a higher level of authentication/verification?

Am I being silly for wanting to verify photos of the VIN tag, trim tag, and engine stamp BEFORE spending the $ to send an expert to verify the car's authenticity?
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:51 PM
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leif.anderson93
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Here is a picture of my '67 L79 with factory A/C (note: the compressor is a replacement Pro6Ten). Looking at the above picture with the A.I.R. unit in place, I would think, even with both the A.I.R. unit and the A/C compressor you should be able to sight down in front of the valve cover and see what you need to see. Compare both pictures and I think you'll see what I am talking about.
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:55 PM
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As can be seen from the photo, the K19 smog pump does not visually obscure the stamp pad. The C60 a/c option does not change or move the smog pump position. With C60, the RH side gets pretty busy as seen in this photo. Still able to see pad, but if seller has shorter a/c comp drive belt, perhaps the pad is covered by hoses, compressor, whatever.


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Old 07-08-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by leif.anderson93 View Post
Here is a picture of my '67 L79 with factory A/C (note: the compressor is a replacement Pro6Ten). Looking at the above picture with the A.I.R. unit in place, I would think, even with both the A.I.R. unit and the A/C compressor you should be able to sight down in front of the valve cover and see what you need to see. Compare both pictures and I think you'll see what I am talking about.

Even with K19 and AC, engine pad should be visible. Maybe not good for photo however, but seller can at least state what he sees on the pad. If K19 and AC, then Noland says only 34 were made for the L79 engine..........pretty rare. If K19, C60 (AC) and N40 (power steering) than the number is 77. Again very rare.

Larry
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Old 07-08-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CADbrian View Post
I've asked to receive from the seller photos of the VIN tag, trim tag, and engine stamp. As of this moment, I've only been given a trim trig photo as the picture(s) that he took of the VIN tag didn't turn out well.

I am still waiting on a VIN tag photo in addition to a picture of the engine stamp.

I do not yet have a block casting number or casting date from the prospective seller. I don't even know if the seller is able or willing to provide me with this information as I'm still waiting to receive the "more basic" information (i.e. VIN and engine pad stamp) first.

If I can get photos of the VIN tag, trim tag, and engine stamp (and they all check out) then I would be happy to send (and spend the $ to send) an expert inspector to verify and authenticate the rest of the vehicle.

Isn't this the proper sequence of things to ask for (VIN tag, trim tag, engine stamp) then move on to a higher level of authentication/verification?

Am I being silly for wanting to verify photos of the VIN tag, trim tag, and engine stamp BEFORE spending the $ to send an expert to verify the car's authenticity?

Certainly not being silly for wanting these items as part of your diligence. Also, no point in sending an inspector if these don't meet your criteria. Keep in mind, some sellers reluctant to provide all or anything you ask for.
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Old 07-08-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CADbrian View Post
I've asked to receive from the seller photos of the VIN tag, trim tag, and engine stamp. As of this moment, I've only been given a trim trig photo as the picture(s) that he took of the VIN tag didn't turn out well.

I am still waiting on a VIN tag photo in addition to a picture of the engine stamp.

I do not yet have a block casting number or casting date from the prospective seller. I don't even know if the seller is able or willing to provide me with this information as I'm still waiting to receive the "more basic" information (i.e. VIN and engine pad stamp) first.

If I can get photos of the VIN tag, trim tag, and engine stamp (and they all check out) then I would be happy to send (and spend the $ to send) an expert inspector to verify and authenticate the rest of the vehicle.

Isn't this the proper sequence of things to ask for (VIN tag, trim tag, engine stamp) then move on to a higher level of authentication/verification?

Am I being silly for wanting to verify photos of the VIN tag, trim tag, and engine stamp BEFORE spending the $ to send an expert to verify the car's authenticity?

Hi Brian,

You are asking the right questions, but if its a private seller, they may not know (as you didn't) where the engine information is.

Be persistent and specific.

Phil
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 856666 View Post
Hi Brian,

You are asking the right questions, but if its a private seller, they may not know (as you didn't) where the engine information is.

Be persistent and specific.

Phil

That's a good thing to remember - that maybe the prospective seller just simply doesn't know where the engine pad stamp is located. As a business owner I spend a lot of time in my career working on ways to remove roadblocks. That's what I'm going to do here - assume that the prospective seller may need help (versus the presumption that he's willingly withholding information) to provide me with the "basics"...

Thanks guys for providing the pictures above. I agree (based on the pictures you guys have provided) that it seems possible to look down in between the AIR unit and the A/C unit to see the engine pad stamp. I'll share with him the picture(s) above and see if that helps the situation...

Thanks.
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