phil48315

My neighbor has a 1962 Vette that is pulling to the right when you hit the brakes hard.
I took it apart and no hydraulic leaks, but the front shoe looks funny!
But the rotor and the rear shoe look fine?
My question is if the center anchor bolt was not adjusted last time brakes were put on it....
Would it cause this strange wear ?

Frankie the Fink

There is no rotor on C1 original brakes, just shoes and drums...there is also no adjustment for the center anchor bolt - its fixed in place..

Next, those shoes look new - very thick lining still left, then it looks like the shoe in the first pic is just meeting the drum on high spots if at all.

I presume you know these are manually adjusted brakes (not self-adjusting), so, if somebody doesn't adjust them then they won't work and may not contact the drum properly; second; there are 6 "slide points" on the backing plate which the shoe frames move across to contact the drum....these need to be level (not worn) and and lightly greased.

Next make sure the adjustor "torpedo" is the one for the correct side...they are usually marked "L" or "R" on the end of the threaded section that has the pawl wheel.

Then of course there is always the issue of the rubber brake line being deteriorated so that the full force of the hydraulic fluid doesn't get applied to the wheel cylinder to push the shoes against the drum...

All of the above are things to check..

There is an old mechanic's trick of sliding the drum 1/2 way on and have somebody push the brake pedal and determine if things are moving properly and the right distance...

jim lockwood

The nut on the anchor bolt can be loosened and, once loose, the bolt can be shifted up and down as needed to center the shoes within the drum.

The procedure is something like this:

Turn the star wheel adjuster so the shoes are making contact with the drum as evidenced by a drag being felt when the drum is rotated

Loosen the anchor bolt nut and slide the bolt up/down to reduce the drag between drum and shoes

Re-adjust star wheel to again create drag

Re-adjust anchor bolt up/down

Rinse and repeat until it's not possible to reduce drag by shifting the anchor bolt. Tighten the anchor bolt nut

Bill Pilon

This makes a perfect case for arc grinding the shoes to perfectly fit the drum, they will bed in quicker and operate better from day 1.

Bill

Frankie the Fink

Exactly - which is how they married the drums to new shoes - I never heard of using the anchor bolt to do it...

GTOguy

I agree. No reason to fiddle with the anchor bolt.....that will just push the shoes out at one end or the other, accomplishing nothing. The OP needs to have the shoes arc-ground to fit, or the owner of the car can simply drive it another 500-1500 miles and the problem will correct itself as the shoes bed in to the drums and get 100% contact.

jim lockwood

That doesn't match my experience at all.

The last time I put new shoes on my '60, they contacted the drum more at one end of the friction material than the other. After adjusting the anchor bolt as I described above, there is full contact of the friction material with the drum.

I didn't need to have the shoe life reduced by having them arced to fit the drums

chris ritchie

The ST-12 tells you to "Loosen anchor pin nut just enough so that pin can shift in slotted hole in flange plate." It then goes on to warn you "NOTE: If nut is loosened too much, the anchor pin will tilt due to pull of brake shoe pull-back springs." (Page 5-3)

Frankie the Fink

I'm not saying its not a legitimate procedure - just that I haven't done it in 50 years on any make car, nor have I seen it done....

I DO know that some (many ?) anchor pins have a thin washer bent over one of the nut's flats to keep it from loosening which was always a "Do Not Disturb" signal to me... IIRC my '63 has those washers..

Whether or not that's the OP's problem is speculation but I'm doubting it greatly...

phil48315

Well a little more insight.
The owner with a mechanic friend put the brakes on the car in 1996 they did not adj. the anchor pin at that time.
But the pull only started last summer....??

From the looks of the shoes he hasn't put many miles on it !
It's a really nice car.

Frankie the Fink

You can't let these cars sit long term without some consequences...

DOT-3 brake fluid is hygroscopic and if it gets moisture in the fluid it can cause rust in the bores of the wheel bearing creating a "rust ring" around where the piston(s) sit for months (years ?)... Then when you finally drive the car things don't work smoothly (or not at all).

This car may well be in need of a general brake overhaul...

I did EVERYthing on the brakes of my 63 when I got it as it had sat for so long....everything but the drums was replaced -- and your local NAPA has all the parts. Wheel cylinders, hoses, shoes, spring kits, etc... I think it cost me $235 5 years ago.

phil48315

I have a meter to check for moisture in the fluid.
Good idea !

GTOguy

I agree. Legitimate procedure with these cars, but one I've never had to perform in over 40 years of doing brakes on thousands of customer cars, as well as my own. From the oddball wear on the shoes, on all areas, adjusting the pins will not help in this case. If it was a heel or toe issue, pin adjustment would help. It isn't.....the entire length of the shoe has contact issues.

phil48315

I'll be back over there on Friday.
I am going to take the other side apart and look to see how it's wearing and inspect everything.
Then do the major adjustment procedure in the book.
I'll test the fluid at the same time.

Pilot Dan

Looking at those photos, I see wheel bearing grease leaking past the dust cap on to the hub and inside the drum. That front shoe is likely grabbing which is causing the car to pull to that side IMO

Frankie the Fink

A distinct possibility although that pattern on the shoes is not what I'm used to seeing when that happens...the shoes usually get glazed and a bit 'burnt' looking - but worth checking...

This is what I was looking at in that regard.

I can't over-emphasis how important cleanliness is on the shoes and drum...spray them liberally with BrakeKleen before assembly and don't even get fingerprints on them afterwards...

BTW - this little tidbit is from the GM 1961 Passenger Car Shop Manual:


And as we know these cars basically have passenger car brake systems - its almost certain that 1962 brakes would have the same guidance....

So, I'll stand by my statement in the first sentence in post #2...in regards to this year car.

jim lockwood

Nope. The C1 brakes retained the adjustable anchor pin through '62. Your original comment is still incorrect.

Frank, since you didn't even know the pin was adjustable and that adjusting it was recommended, it's no wonder you hadn't done it.

It is a legitimate procedure and it ought to be the first tactic used in getting the arc of the shoes aligned with the arc of the drum. If that doesn't work, then and only then would it be appropriate to hunt around for someone to grind material off the shoes to make them match.

Frankie the Fink

Fair point.

Most of my work "back in the day" was on post-1962 cars - with the exception of my '59 MGA (also had disc brakes) and my '55 Buick and most of the Buick memories are about "back seat" action at the drive-in movies...

I did read the ST-12 section and there is a fair bit on tweaking the anchor pin (and I thought I was too old and decrepit to learn something new)...

Ergo....the OP should consider this when dealing with his friend's brake issue described above..

phil48315

Well let me tell you it's a bitch working on someones car with them hovering over you.... lol
I got the other side apart and it looks perfect....
(the oil on the hub was from him to keep the drum from sticking to the hub, no leaks all clean and dry)
I convinced him to take me out for a ride to feel the pull.
He drive's it like an old man, I finally told him stomp the brakes like someone pulled out in front of you !
And low and behold the rear passenger wheel locked up !
So we took it back home and took the rears apart and every thing is dry and clean, the hose and wheel cylinders still look new.
( a little wear and dry brake dust, no moisture at all)
I really expected to see a leaky wheel cyl. or axle seal.

He drives it like an old man, so nothing is overheated.
Only one hose on the rear and only one side is affected.
The shoes move freely, and all the springs look and feel good.

Right now I am telling him lets do the major adj. procedure, and change all 4 wheel cylinders and flush the fluid.
But he is hesitant.... keeps wanting to call a buddy of his that helped him restore it yrs. ago.
So waiting on him to make a decision.....
I was wondering if he was hesitant because he wasn't sure what I was going to charge him.... some shop rates are getting up there.
But I reassured him he was on the buddy system, so far I was just his friendly neighbor checking out his cool old car and trying to help.
Once we figure it out and have a plan we will talk price.

What do you think is a fair price for..
Taking everything apart, cleaning, lubing, putting it back together and adjusting it all.
And changing all 4 wheel cylinders, flushing the fluid and bleeding it ?

I was thinking $250 labor and he can buy the wheel cylinders, brake fluid, and brake clean.

Frankie the Fink

$250 would be a bargain compared to some shops offering those $99 brake jobs....those 'teaser rates' soon turn into $600 brake overhauls. In reality, this guy is so antsy I'd tell him to call his restoration buddy and be done with it...

I've found that sometimes my zeal to help out a neighbor with automobile (or plumbing or carpentry or electrical) problems that it may become a continual unanticipated commitment. So, now I offer to show neighbors how to fix their own problems or just offer advice. I'm good pals with all my neighbor's but I'm not their walking, talking Angie's List...