Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem
12-02-2002, 07:49 AM
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Melting Slicks
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Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem
...here's the scoop....the SB roadster has EVERYTHING fresh...maybe 700 miles post-engine rebuild with the specs as noted in the sig (note that i also added a pertronix at the same time).....minor problems along the way such as - when i went to add the k&n top air filter, the new lower clearance caused the choke to hang up midway, causing a rich condition, fouling the plugs - fixed the clearance problem, cleaned the plugs and it ran REAL well for a while....note that i run both k&n circular and top filters without the stock air cleaner cover.....
...so, driving the beast home, with a song in my heart, and all of a sudden (at speed), the engine starts misfiring.....it stays that way for the remainder of the 20 miles or so back home and i get back without any mishaps......pull the plugs (accel 576's) and they are wet-fouled...prior to this, the plugs looked a little black (cyliner #2, if i remember, was the leanest and had some tan showing at the tip but the other cyliders looked a little rich) but i assumed that was OK for a fresh engine)......OK, put a new set of plugs in (autolite equivalents to the accels) and the car runs great again.....another 50 mile run and i am pretty pleased with the smoothness of the engine and the ability of the engine to wind pretty effortlessly............
....leave the car set for two weeks, go to start it and although it cranks well, has gas pumping through the accelerator pump, it will not start - what's interesting is that it SOUNDS like it doesn't want to start and now i've obviously flooded it - against my better judgement, i use starting fluid and it kicks over with some detonation but once it catches, it runs very well - put 20 miles on it, pull the plugs and they are again wet fouled...pull the plugs, clean them up, reinstall them, go to start the beast and the SAME start-up problem but, again, runs very well when i get it running - pull the plugs after the run and again wet-fouled :cuss
....now i am deep into thought, which is very difficulet for me and seek some additonal, local, advice which initially points me to "you need more air" - unlikely, i say, with all that k&n stuff on the carb....."weak spark" is another comment which i admit MAY be something to investigate because i'm running a pertronix with a stock coil and a ballast resistor whihc may/may not have the best resistance value for my setup but i keep thinking the problem is too much gas....
...so, here, pundits, is where i involve you and let your imagination run wild but i'll only give you enough to let you speculate - i know more now than i'll be posting initially - since my suspicion is too much gas, i pull the carb to go over it again (freshly rebuilt with a holley kit at the same time as the engine reload) and what i observe is first, there is a rear float bowl leak either at the fuel transfer tupe or at the top driver's side float bowl screw, not sure and, when i left the carb off the manifold, the carb/manifold gasket is slightly wet but only in the center.......
...so, what would you do next?
...so, driving the beast home, with a song in my heart, and all of a sudden (at speed), the engine starts misfiring.....it stays that way for the remainder of the 20 miles or so back home and i get back without any mishaps......pull the plugs (accel 576's) and they are wet-fouled...prior to this, the plugs looked a little black (cyliner #2, if i remember, was the leanest and had some tan showing at the tip but the other cyliders looked a little rich) but i assumed that was OK for a fresh engine)......OK, put a new set of plugs in (autolite equivalents to the accels) and the car runs great again.....another 50 mile run and i am pretty pleased with the smoothness of the engine and the ability of the engine to wind pretty effortlessly............
....leave the car set for two weeks, go to start it and although it cranks well, has gas pumping through the accelerator pump, it will not start - what's interesting is that it SOUNDS like it doesn't want to start and now i've obviously flooded it - against my better judgement, i use starting fluid and it kicks over with some detonation but once it catches, it runs very well - put 20 miles on it, pull the plugs and they are again wet fouled...pull the plugs, clean them up, reinstall them, go to start the beast and the SAME start-up problem but, again, runs very well when i get it running - pull the plugs after the run and again wet-fouled :cuss
....now i am deep into thought, which is very difficulet for me and seek some additonal, local, advice which initially points me to "you need more air" - unlikely, i say, with all that k&n stuff on the carb....."weak spark" is another comment which i admit MAY be something to investigate because i'm running a pertronix with a stock coil and a ballast resistor whihc may/may not have the best resistance value for my setup but i keep thinking the problem is too much gas....
...so, here, pundits, is where i involve you and let your imagination run wild but i'll only give you enough to let you speculate - i know more now than i'll be posting initially - since my suspicion is too much gas, i pull the carb to go over it again (freshly rebuilt with a holley kit at the same time as the engine reload) and what i observe is first, there is a rear float bowl leak either at the fuel transfer tupe or at the top driver's side float bowl screw, not sure and, when i left the carb off the manifold, the carb/manifold gasket is slightly wet but only in the center.......
...so, what would you do next?
12-02-2002, 09:25 AM
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Melting Slicks
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Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (Kid_Again)
The carb on my Vette was dripping gas into the engine for God knows what reason. Possibly the low perk temp gas and the fact that the carb was original. Anyway I would NOT try rejiggering the carb. I went that route with my car. All I had was headaches form smelling gas not to mention wasted money, time and the ever present danger of dire.
I would get a known GOOD carb and load it on. Just a quick bolt on and within 50 miles or so you ought to know. One way or the other you would have more data. Either the carb is toast, in which case the problem goes away with the substitute carb OR the engine continues to screw up at 50 /60 mile intervals then you know it is NOT the carb since the problem would have persisted with both carbs.
I think it is fuel related if you twist my arm for my vote I don't think Pertronics and a stock (in good shape) coil is the issue. Pertronics is only a trigger to replace the points and signal the coil: you don't need a big coil with it. You can use a big output coil if you want but Pertronics should work OK with a standard output coil.
Check your coil or swap in a known good one. I had a bad coil on a L-79 engine and it just plain refused to start when the engine was warm. Of course it flooded (like yours?) when I was trying to get it running but the answer was a new coil.
I would get a known GOOD carb and load it on. Just a quick bolt on and within 50 miles or so you ought to know. One way or the other you would have more data. Either the carb is toast, in which case the problem goes away with the substitute carb OR the engine continues to screw up at 50 /60 mile intervals then you know it is NOT the carb since the problem would have persisted with both carbs.
I think it is fuel related if you twist my arm for my vote I don't think Pertronics and a stock (in good shape) coil is the issue. Pertronics is only a trigger to replace the points and signal the coil: you don't need a big coil with it. You can use a big output coil if you want but Pertronics should work OK with a standard output coil.
Check your coil or swap in a known good one. I had a bad coil on a L-79 engine and it just plain refused to start when the engine was warm. Of course it flooded (like yours?) when I was trying to get it running but the answer was a new coil.
12-02-2002, 09:45 AM
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Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (Kid_Again)
..."weak spark" is another comment which i admit MAY be something to investigate because i'm running a pertronix with a stock coil and a ballast resistor whihc may/may not have the best resistance value for my setup but i keep thinking the problem is too much gas....
...so, what would you do next?
...so, what would you do next?
12-02-2002, 10:12 AM
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Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (Kid_Again)
Ok - Here goes
1) Fix the fuel leak - reason potential fire
2) The Pertronix unit as I remember requires a full 12 volts - get your power off the input side of the resistor not the output. The unit may not be triggering at all at times or triggering at the wrong time thus giving you no fire or late fire at a plug and subsequent wet plugs.
3) Check the carb and acc linkage. Make sure none of the butterflies are open just ever so much causing gas to constantly dump into engine. Also since you said you had a clearance problem with the K&N -- maybe there is a rub somewhere else causing a linkage to stick open. Perhaps you have not really cleared the interference at the choke ?? Maybe try your other air cleaner. You didnt forget to reconnect the acc spring -- did you ?? The ground strap at the acc isnt binding is it ???
4) Recheck your float levels. Additionally, what size jets did you put in that carb when you rebuilt it ??
It has to be something simple in my opinion. What have you done to the car since you took me for a ride in it. I would start there because that motor ran fine that day.
john
[Modified by JL66REDCPE, 10:14 AM 12/2/2002]
1) Fix the fuel leak - reason potential fire
2) The Pertronix unit as I remember requires a full 12 volts - get your power off the input side of the resistor not the output. The unit may not be triggering at all at times or triggering at the wrong time thus giving you no fire or late fire at a plug and subsequent wet plugs.
3) Check the carb and acc linkage. Make sure none of the butterflies are open just ever so much causing gas to constantly dump into engine. Also since you said you had a clearance problem with the K&N -- maybe there is a rub somewhere else causing a linkage to stick open. Perhaps you have not really cleared the interference at the choke ?? Maybe try your other air cleaner. You didnt forget to reconnect the acc spring -- did you ?? The ground strap at the acc isnt binding is it ???
4) Recheck your float levels. Additionally, what size jets did you put in that carb when you rebuilt it ??
It has to be something simple in my opinion. What have you done to the car since you took me for a ride in it. I would start there because that motor ran fine that day.
john
[Modified by JL66REDCPE, 10:14 AM 12/2/2002]
12-02-2002, 10:41 AM
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Melting Slicks
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Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (JL66REDCPE)
....ok, here's some additional help and a hint at the end....the linkage is free and clear, the butterflies are closed when at rest, the jets are correct for a 365hp small block, floats were set correctly and they do not bind - the fuel inlet valves are clear with no dirt clogging it up and the power valve is a 6.5 - all checked, and re-checked before the carb was rebuilt.....there was nothing that i can recall that i did to the car before i experienced the problem on the ride home...the choke is now locked open....i'm getting a new msd coil and will add that as a single change somewhere soon down the road (change one thing at a time, i was taught)
...i can tell you that i took the carb apart yesterday and did notice a "problem" when i went to put it back together...it's a problem in quotes because it is now only an observation and the true test will be once i put the carb back on - i DO like the suggestion of installing a known good carb...
...any thoughts?
[Modified by Kid_Again, 10:44 AM 12/2/2002]
[Modified by Kid_Again, 10:47 AM 12/2/2002]
...i can tell you that i took the carb apart yesterday and did notice a "problem" when i went to put it back together...it's a problem in quotes because it is now only an observation and the true test will be once i put the carb back on - i DO like the suggestion of installing a known good carb...
...any thoughts?
[Modified by Kid_Again, 10:44 AM 12/2/2002]
[Modified by Kid_Again, 10:47 AM 12/2/2002]
12-02-2002, 11:08 AM
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Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (Kid_Again)
The Pertronix instructions do a less-than-stellar job of explaining it, but the Pertronix module wants a full 12 volts (from the primary side of the resistor), and the coil still wants the resistance feed (from the secondary side of the resistor). Try that with some AC R45S or Champion RJ14YC plugs and see how she runs :thumbs:
12-02-2002, 08:07 PM
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Melting Slicks
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Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (JohnZ)
...ok, i also like the advice about the resistance and pertronix unit but here's what happened with the latest rebuild of the carb...when i took it apart, everything looked fine, the jets and power valve were tight, couldn't see any obvious problems....i took the power valve off to inspect the passages and everything was fine till i tightened down the power valve and thought i stripped the threads - what DID happen is the power valve cracked right at the point where it's slotted and the base just continued to go through the metering block....i'm quite certain i did not overtighten the power valve either on the initial post-engine reload or on the carb rebuild last night - SO, i'd like to believe that i've found a major (if the not the sole) problem with the plugs fouling but even if i did, i do remain a bit concerned about the amount of spark getting to the plugs...so, i rebuild thecarb with a good power valve, drive it a bit and see what happens and then maybe go with step-wise increments in the ignition system as a belts-and-suspenders approach?
....whudya' think.........
...btw, johnz, ordered my books today from the SAE website - thanks again to you and the duke :cheers:
....whudya' think.........
...btw, johnz, ordered my books today from the SAE website - thanks again to you and the duke :cheers:
12-03-2002, 08:47 AM
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Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (Kid_Again)
Did the engine ever backfire through the carbuerator after you rebuilt it ??
Regarding the Pertonix unit. I would first try just hooking the power up to a full 12 volts before I put the msd coil on and see how it runs. If you still want to put the MSD coil on -- fine. However, you might want to check your plug wires and make sure they are not arcing, especially at the distributor, with the MSD coil. You may have to go to a larger diameter wire if you are currently running 7mm. I dont remember what size wires you were running. If you have not bought the MSD coil and want to try one, I have an almost brand new one here in the closet along with a virtually brand new MSD 6A box and distributor cap.
john lolli
Regarding the Pertonix unit. I would first try just hooking the power up to a full 12 volts before I put the msd coil on and see how it runs. If you still want to put the MSD coil on -- fine. However, you might want to check your plug wires and make sure they are not arcing, especially at the distributor, with the MSD coil. You may have to go to a larger diameter wire if you are currently running 7mm. I dont remember what size wires you were running. If you have not bought the MSD coil and want to try one, I have an almost brand new one here in the closet along with a virtually brand new MSD 6A box and distributor cap.
john lolli
12-03-2002, 11:20 AM
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Melting Slicks
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Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (JL66REDCPE)
...john...hold that thought on the msd stuff.....VERY good to know...the car never backfired and i have the backfire kit installed...the plug wires are brand new moroso's - 8's i think...need to check
12-03-2002, 12:19 PM
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Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (Kid_Again)
Heh Kid,
Sent you an instant message . My freind is insterested in Your 5 Ko's.
If you can't read it let me know and I will forward his phonr numbers and email. :cheers:
Sent you an instant message . My freind is insterested in Your 5 Ko's.
If you can't read it let me know and I will forward his phonr numbers and email. :cheers:
12-03-2002, 12:39 PM
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Melting Slicks
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Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (Viet Nam Vett)
vnv...IM crashes explorer and i can't get the message...you have regular email with my phone numbers....delivery ought to be easy enough, i can leave the wheels at the english creek shopping center in the care of that mouse you released
12-03-2002, 03:19 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (Kid_Again)
"
....whudya' think.........
"
Just finding this thread. Was there tons of black smoke and was it eating gas? My brothers Chevelle had a scared power valve seat. Wow did that thing put out the rich black smoke. But the similar thing it did to your problem was foul the plugs. :yesnod: Hope you have found your problem.
....whudya' think.........
"
Just finding this thread. Was there tons of black smoke and was it eating gas? My brothers Chevelle had a scared power valve seat. Wow did that thing put out the rich black smoke. But the similar thing it did to your problem was foul the plugs. :yesnod: Hope you have found your problem.
12-03-2002, 04:27 PM
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Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (Kid_Again)
Just stating what others have said on 12v to your set up. Best check with pertronix as some of their units are not made for high output coils.
12-03-2002, 06:13 PM
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Melting Slicks
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Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (Mel Foye)
...no, no black smoke.....i've never paid attention to gas mileage.......the only symptoms i noticed were hard cold starting and wet fouled plugs
12-03-2002, 07:18 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (Kid_Again)
Quote*
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delivery ought to be easy enough, i can leave the wheels at the english creek shopping center in the care of that mouse you released
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, he's kind of busy right now doing Power Valve installs and Pentronix
Upgrades and has a Frame Off scheduled for next week............ :thumbs:
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delivery ought to be easy enough, i can leave the wheels at the english creek shopping center in the care of that mouse you released
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, he's kind of busy right now doing Power Valve installs and Pentronix
Upgrades and has a Frame Off scheduled for next week............ :thumbs:
12-08-2002, 04:22 PM
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Re: Little Block Kid-Mobile - what do YOU think is the problem (Viet Nam Vett)
...looks like the mouse knows what he's doing...put the rebuilt carb back on and it fired right up - the powere valve was the problem...i got an msd coil anyway and will put that on when convenient....thanks to everyone!