budrock

Anyone heard of Classic Car Restoration in Tarpon Springs Fl.? Well, I took my 67 there for a complete frame off and engine rebuild. Overall the car looks and drives real good, BUT, after getting it home the speedometer stopped working, the drivers door is not lined up by a 1/2" when shut. The newly recovered leather seats are wrinkled and bunched up in places. There was a slow drip leak of fuel where the sending unit was not properly locked down. There is no heater(there was one before). The horn cap was installed with the flag emblem standing on end instead of horizontal. The car is a convertable. They said it passed a water test. It has'nt been in the rain,but when I'm on the highway I can feel air coming in between the windshield header and top weather strip. It sure flunked my water test.
My buddy's 59 was restored there at the same time as mine and when he got his back, the wiper moter was bad .They did'nt replace the old one. A lot of bolts were real loose where the engine is mounted. Oh yea, his engine caught fire 2 weeks after getting it home. He paid them (Classic Car)75K for his resto job!
Mine was'nt that much, but it was a lot of $$ still. Plus they had my car for TWO years! After it was there for a year they told me they had at least 30 other restorations going on. Great!

They told me to fix all that stuff and they would reimburse me( I live in North Carolina so I'm not taking it back down there), but i'm pissed because after paying all that $, everything should have been right to begin with.
I'm not trying to slam these guys.
They got a lot of press last year mostly in Corvette Cars and Parts mag for their resto of a 53.
The paint job is awesome and the engine runs great. (They send the engines out to be rebuilt). I think they were just too busy with all the other cars to put total and thorough attention and care to mine. And they let me have it like that. Well, live and learn.
I'm new to this site. It's great, so much info and experts here. As soon as I get a digital camera I'll post pics.
Any comments?

TheOman

There are some lines in an old rock song. I saw this posted on a guys office wall and it hangs over my workbench now. Don't know the singer, never heard the song but something about this just clicked for me.

I ain't in it for the power
I ain't in it for my health
I ain't in it for the glory or anything at all
And I sure ain't in it for the wealth
But I am in it till its over and I just won't stop
If ya want it done right ya gotta do it yourself.

Not sure what the other verses said but honestly "If ya want it done right ya gotta do it YOURSELF" really resonated with me. After shuckin out $75 long that freakin car should be 1000% perfect, Consider though that when all the smoke clears the laborer doing that work on your car ain't likely interested a hoot in the outcome. All he cares about is his paycheck.

I have gotten to the point after hearing stories like this where if I can't do it myself I will learn how to do it or it just won't get done.

Sorry for your misfortune.

Ih2lose

Welcome abourd

How far a trip is it?
What does your contract state for warrenty?
I would have them correct the problems 100%

Unless your doing it your self you can only void your warrenty for having others correct it

I seen a restoration shops invoices and they are very specific in there billing,Do You have that type of billing that you can go to it and find out how much they charge for the areas that you are having troubles with and then asked to be reimbursed that amount?

GTs 58

I'm really sorry to hear about your experience. And welcome to the forum. :cheers:
Last year at the Good Guys show I had a conversation with the owner of a beautiful black 1959 Vette. He also had a bad experience, the car was in three different shops for it's complete restoration. The third shop did a great job on the car, unfortunately the owner had to pay to have most of the work done three times. I hope this wasn't your friend.
Make sure you get the car fixed to your satisfaction with CCRestoration paying the tab if that is possible, paying twice for one job just isn't right. :mad

Gary

Denney

:seeya Welcome. It is my understanding that good Vette restoration shops are always in demand (as in busy!) and, believe it or not, some things end up getting screwed up even at the best of them. Seems nice of them to offer to reimburse for repairing what they didn't do correctly to beigin with... :banghead: Live and learn I guess... :auto: I ~hope~ you aren't joining on the Forum just to rail about the shop though... :skep:

Mechanic

First, let me say that I don't know anything about the restoration shop you mentioned, so I'm not faulting them, nor can I offer an explanation for what you experienced regarding their work. Nonetheless, I always feel bad whenever someone pays for restoration work and it doesn't work out as planned for some reason. I hope that ultimately your situation works out and you're satisfied.

Having said that, I'm not totally surprised that your restoration is less than complete at this point. Restoration work is really very, very difficult. I got through school in the last '60s working in what used to be called a "foreign car" garage. In addition to working on XK Jaguars (junk) and Healeys (not much better), plus an assortment of German cars, my employer also did (damn expensive) restorations for customers if he liked the customer and he had an interest in the project.

Which is one of the points of my post: In my (humble) opinion, restorations only work out if the shop has a stake in the project beyond simply making money. You gave an example when you mentioned that Classic Car Restorations received a favorable review of their prior work in C&P's Corvette magazine. In that same vein, if you owned a Jag XK-120 and planned to show it anywhere in the South, my boss was always looking over my shoulder and coaching me along as a project came together. He felt (and I agree with him), that our reputation was on the line. He also believed that if the car was going to be put back in service (driven regularly, as opposed to being a trailer queen), that he and the owner could work out any adjustments needed. In this regard, it may help to remember that the average car is made up of roughly 10,000 parts. Even if the work is 99.9% perfect, there are still 9 significant things that can go wrong, or need to be fixed, the morning you arrive to take your baby home.

Which brings me to my final point, which coincidentially was discussed in an article last year in Car and Driver concerning the restoration of a Healey 100-4. You can't just hand over your car and hope for the best; you have to live in the pockets of the folks doing the work. Visit the shop often. It's human nature -- or at least it was mine -- to work harder, add that extra bit of effort, if I'd met the owner and knew what he wanted, how this car fit into his life. Then it became our shared project. I'm not saying that I screwed off on the other cars. It's just that I could picture the owner's face and what he'd be thinking if the electric overdrive failed to engage when he toggled the switch.

Your disappointment is apparent. I hope that you are able to get your restoration completed soon and can begin to enjoy your Corvette as you imagined you would.

Allcoupedup

Good Post Mechanic.

Viet Nam Vett

Like the Oman... I too have a sign over my work bench....It's called the 7 P's


Proper-Prior-Planning,-Prevents- ****- Poor- Performance...


Budrock..Welcome to the Forum and I hpoe all goes well with your car. please post the pic's when you can. Sounds like a nice car.. :flag


[Modified by Viet Nam Vett, 11:38 PM 1/10/2003]

RichF

Yes, they did get an amazing amount of press on the "better than new" restoration of this '53 that was auctioned at Carlisle and bought by Pro-Team, I believe...

Unfortunately, I find this happens almost everywhere. The folks I use (and like) still sometimes return my car to me in a 'less than perfect' condition.... and they are known Corvette specialists... even if they say "bring it back and we'll take care of it".. it's a royal p.i.t.a. and I wind up doing it myself......

magicv8

I look at the cars in that shop every year on spring break. They now have a museum that charges an entry fee to look. Considering all the things to be covered, they should be able to get it almost right the first time, but almost is relative. I have always felt that the difference between a TQ and a car that is driven is that a TQ never has to shed water, stop in a straight line, start on cold mornings, and be rattle FREE. Evidently they didn't expect you to drive the car - it looks and sounds good. Show it and bag it - or - keep fixing it as you drive it and find bugs in the old design restored by others.

I always tell people who ask - anyone can find a banker who will let them buy one. Keeping and maintaining it is really expensive. :banghead: :lolg:

0X-AutoProducts

it's probably true to say that we all have had an experience like this. i've had my car for 4 years and have taken a GREAT deal of time searching for shops that do the type of work i want. earlier this year, i wanted to have a nut & bolt tranny rebuild done on my car. after much searching, i used a specialty vette shop very highly recommended by an ncrs guy who says "these are the only guys who'll work on my cars". his cars are all top flight, so i figured they must be worthy. they too are vette owners, and attend all the regional ncrs events. their shop was as clean as most surgical wards. they quoted specs from the assembly manual and ncrs judging guide. 6 months later, the clutch threw one of the springs surrounding the hub. when a dfferent shop pulled the disc, it was a no-name brand that the mechanic said was junk and never should have been installed. i called the original shop and all they would say was "sorry". this was one of my less-costly errors in judgement. needless to say, a bad mechanic will cost you far more than you pay them. i could go on and on.... but i won't.

i'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience. maybe the shop will make good on the situation. good luck with your car, and hope to see you around soon.

Bluestripe67

Welcome budrock, sorry to hear your experience. Do what you have to do to recover and enjoy the car. You will, I repeat, will, enjoy the car, and stay here on the forum.

clem zahrobsky

why would anyone spend $75 K for a restoration on a car that will only be worth $40/50K when done? :chevy

Larry P

I agree that if you want it done properly, do it your self! The first question you will get at a car show is-- Did you build it? It would be embarrasing for me to say NO. The Joy of driving something that you put together yourself is unbelievable. I don't intend to slight anybody that doesn't have the knowhow.
If your smart enough to have an extra 75K, your smart enough to do this.
I don't really enjoy working on cars. I pay somebody else to change my oil.
When I can answer that question with a YES! I did it! All the hours disapear.
:auto:

Tom73

budrock,
The way you describe the problems really don't sound like anything major to me. More like teething problems. New Vettes right off the production line have problems like those. The owners take them back to the dealer to get the minor (and major) issues worked out. Sounds as if you need to work out something with a local shop to correct the issues and bill the restoration shop directly or to get the restoration shop to correct the issues.

By the way, welcome to the forum. :)

tom...

mrg

TWO years .. ??! .. Buddy shelled out 75K .. !! .. :eek: .. Man o' MAN .. I'm starting to feel more "qualified" in doing my own work after reading your post. Sorry to hear things came up a bit short, though the problems seem relatively minor. A good shop will stand by their work and make it right, so hopefully, those things that need further attention shouldn't become an issue. Seems others on this thread have also had less than satisfactory experiences. Oman makes a good point about going the DIY route. I know there will be a "learning curve" along the way, speaking for myself. All the knowledge and help I've seen given here by the forum members has already shortened that "curve" for me. .. THANKS GUYS ..

mrg

Kid_Again

...well, first off, welcome to the forum!

...i'm with mrg....i'm in the wrong business after listening to this story....AND i should start charging for the work i do on others' cars :banghead:

....listen, there will be apologists for the resto shop and i think they raise a good point - regardless of the expense incurred, perfection is impossible...but from what i remember of what i read, they FORGOT THE HEATER :skep: ...ok, so now i have this picture of a resto shop in florida and an alleged restoration mechanic looking at a heater core thinking "where the f*** does THIS go??"

...i hate to remind you (and i understand that you live in NC), you should have never taken possession of the car......boy, good lesson for all of us....and i clearly understand the situation that you find yourself in - good luck and smart of you to post this stuff for others to see...

...lesse here, you got screwed, you had to wait 2 years, your buddy spent $70K and the car caught fire....hmm, yup, sounds like your standard corvette resto shop to me :nonod:

TheOman

"lesse here, you got screwed, you had to wait 2 years, your buddy spent $70K and the car caught fire....hmm, yup, sounds like your standard corvette resto shop to me"

But this IS a problem, even more so if it is indeed "The standard Corvette resto shop" ! Kid, you and I have kicked this around in various threads for a long time but for the purpose of this thread lemmy take out my soapbox.

Somebody spent $75K on a resto and got screwed. Somebody else had a car where the heater was missing. My neighbor just had a head gasket replaced on his truck, an old timer from 72 but none the less VERY handy when ya need it. When he got it back 5 spark plugs were loose, the initial timing was wrong, the small wires in and out of the coil were finger tight, the screw holding the heat stove in the intake was stripped, the vac advance was connected to the wrong port and the choke pull off rod from the stove to the carb butterfly was not connected.

Now what does this truck have to do with Vette resto shops you ask? The labor doing the work comes for the most part from the same labor pool. People who likely cannot do much else and generally don't take pride in their work are the hands on guys doing the work somebody is paying $75K freakin dollars for. Infreakincredible!!!!

The owners of many big shops don't get their hands dirty, they see themselves as entrepreneurs, movers and shakers and generally above that dirty hands stuff. They are the guys smiling and shakin your hand when you agree to a $75K estimate then the work gets turned over to "The Shop Rats" Sure the owners know how to do it themselves or at least they know how it should be done to be right but THEY ARE NOT DOING THE WORK!!

I think a lot of guys here would agree as you said earlier that: "We are in the wrong business" in terms of what we do for employment based on these numbers. On the other hand doing it right takes time and time is money. I am not appologizing for the shop, the statement, and I am paraphrasing here that these are "normal shakedown or teething problems" is also as crazy as can be.

A lot of people, including most likely the shop rats working on the car, don't earn $75k working a whole freakin year. If $75K is a fair and prevailing rate for what was done [ I think whoever paid that amount is crazy as a loon] then what the hell does it take to get it RIGHT ? $100K ....more...$125K ???? How does the shop build a car that burns down or build a car without the heater core? Answer; they don't give a ______ about anything other than doing just enough to get paid. Just that simple. As long as they continue to get paid this will go on.

Shops like this shop gotta be held to task, watch em every day, bitch immediately when something is wrong and NEVER EVER EVER EVER send a car so far away that you cannot drop in regularly (and unnanounced) without buying airplane tickets. People who drop a car off 1000 or more miles from home for a 2year $75K restoration would do well to spend some of that money in counseling!

Like I said there are VERY few things I will not do myself and ANYTHING that goes out to a shop is a drop dead necessity that I can't fix myself. A rare rare event indeed when any car I own: the Corvette, Mrs. Omans luxury ride, my Honda daily driver or my motorcycle goes out to a shop. When it does go it goes with a lot of heartburn and trepidation on my part. I worry about them gettin it right, how long it is gonna take and what colateral damage I will find when the car returns.


[Modified by TheOman, 9:51 AM 1/11/2003]

MassVette

Sounds like business is a little TOO good for them. They're probably not paying as much attention as they should because of the volume of work.
Anyway- posts like yours should take care of their "excess" work problem.
:yesnod:

Jeff Garner

Buddy, I saw your 67 in Goldsboro a few years ago. Seemed like it was a 300 hp powerglide. Nice car and I love the color. Sorry to hear your dissastifaction with the restoration shop. Hopefully, the problems can be corrected, especially the door alignment. That would definatly bother me. Sounds like they're willing to make it right, although it'll be more of a hassle for you, since you paid for and expected a turn-key job.
It does sound like this shop is in it for quantity ($$$) instead of quality. At one time, their quality and attention to detail and customer satisfaction built their reputation, but their volume of work has changed that. Now it's a production shop.
I've seen your friends 59 running around here for a while now. I guess he's worked things out since the fire.
If you're ever up my way with the 67, look me up, I'd like to take a look. Good luck, Jeff