C2 rear-wheel spindle spline to spindle flange noise
04-20-2004, 07:12 AM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
C2 rear-wheel spindle spline to spindle flange noise
A common problem on a C4 is the rear wheel spindle splines to hub mating surface making noise (clicking). Usually, it can be cured by lubricating the spindle splines and tightening the wheel bearing nut to about 260 lb-ft.
Recently, I put new rear wheel bearings and one spindle in my '64. The wheel bearing clearances are .0015". There are no worn parts: no play in U-Joints, no excessive play in rear, the front mount on the rear is tight, the trailing arms are tight in the frame, etc.
There is no noise when trying to turn the parts by hand.
There was no noise before I put in new wheel bearings.
But, now, when I begin to move in low gear, I hear (I never feel anything) a clicking noise. This noise is from the spindle to spindle flange movement. The spindle nuts are torqued to 100 lb-ft. But, since I knew of the problem in the C4, I lubricated the spindle splines before I put it together.
From a search of the archives on the C3 forum, I've found that others have had this problem -- they narrrowed the problem down and proved it.
But, I don't see anywhere where anyone said they solved it.
There is really nothing to replace -- nothing is worn. In fact, the side that is making the noise has the new spindle.
Since it didn't make noise before I took it apart, I'm wondering if I should not have lubricated the splines.
I think these are my options:
1) Take it apart and clean the lubricant off the splines.
2) Torque the spindle nut to 200 lb-ft.
3) Buy the special shim (sold by International Axle) that goes between the spindle flange and the inner-bearing inner-race hoping it will cause a greater clamping load -- this is not a shim used for setting the wheel bearing clearance, it is on the outside of the inner bearing.
4) Any combination of the above.
The spindle splines to spindle flange on both the C2 and C4 are not an "interference fit." They are designed to have some clearance. But, this clearance allows a slight movement if the clamping load isn't enough to prevent movement.
Ideas?
Tom Piper
[Modified by Tom Piper, 7:28 AM 4/20/2004]
Recently, I put new rear wheel bearings and one spindle in my '64. The wheel bearing clearances are .0015". There are no worn parts: no play in U-Joints, no excessive play in rear, the front mount on the rear is tight, the trailing arms are tight in the frame, etc.
There is no noise when trying to turn the parts by hand.
There was no noise before I put in new wheel bearings.
But, now, when I begin to move in low gear, I hear (I never feel anything) a clicking noise. This noise is from the spindle to spindle flange movement. The spindle nuts are torqued to 100 lb-ft. But, since I knew of the problem in the C4, I lubricated the spindle splines before I put it together.
From a search of the archives on the C3 forum, I've found that others have had this problem -- they narrrowed the problem down and proved it.
But, I don't see anywhere where anyone said they solved it.
There is really nothing to replace -- nothing is worn. In fact, the side that is making the noise has the new spindle.
Since it didn't make noise before I took it apart, I'm wondering if I should not have lubricated the splines.
I think these are my options:
1) Take it apart and clean the lubricant off the splines.
2) Torque the spindle nut to 200 lb-ft.
3) Buy the special shim (sold by International Axle) that goes between the spindle flange and the inner-bearing inner-race hoping it will cause a greater clamping load -- this is not a shim used for setting the wheel bearing clearance, it is on the outside of the inner bearing.
4) Any combination of the above.
The spindle splines to spindle flange on both the C2 and C4 are not an "interference fit." They are designed to have some clearance. But, this clearance allows a slight movement if the clamping load isn't enough to prevent movement.
Ideas?
Tom Piper
[Modified by Tom Piper, 7:28 AM 4/20/2004]
04-20-2004, 11:08 AM
#2
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Re: C2 rear-wheel spindle spline to spindle flange noise (Tom Piper)
I don't think any increase in clamping force from the spindle nut will have any effect at all; the splined connection between the spindle and the flange is no different than the connection from the front prop shaft yoke to the trans output shaft, which uses zero clamping force. Splined joints depend on a precise close-tolerance match between the splines, and if either is worn or broached slightly beyond tolerance, there will be play between the two, and the acceleration/braking forces acting on the splines are far greater than can be overcome by any axial clamping force that can be applied to the joint.
I think you just have a tolerance issue between the new spindle splines and the old flange splines that makes the connection loose enough that you can hear it; that's why the spindle nut has a cotter pin, so the play between the two splined parts resulting from wear doesn't tend to loosen the nut. :thumbs:
I think you just have a tolerance issue between the new spindle splines and the old flange splines that makes the connection loose enough that you can hear it; that's why the spindle nut has a cotter pin, so the play between the two splined parts resulting from wear doesn't tend to loosen the nut. :thumbs:
04-20-2004, 09:47 PM
#3
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Re: C2 rear-wheel spindle spline to spindle flange noise (JohnZ)
JohnZ
Thanks for the reply.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that this is not detrimental and may be normal, just annoying.
Since I still have the old spindle (the only reason I replaced it was the holes where the wheel studs go in are enlarged and no longer hold the studs securely), I might be able to tell the difference in the play using a dial indicator.
Tom Piper
Thanks for the reply.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that this is not detrimental and may be normal, just annoying.
Since I still have the old spindle (the only reason I replaced it was the holes where the wheel studs go in are enlarged and no longer hold the studs securely), I might be able to tell the difference in the play using a dial indicator.
Tom Piper
