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Salvage Title Issued by Arizona

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Old 02-11-2005, 10:41 PM   #1
LouAZ
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Default Salvage Title Issued by Arizona

Just my luck. I took delivery of my 1970 BB vert (NOM) last night and went to register it today. The seller provided a clean Florida title. Upon inspection AZ MVD ran the VIN in their data base and it came up as salvaged in 1987. AZ MVD proceeded to erase the VIN from the drivers side windshield pillar and attached a new AZ VIN while issuing a restored salvage title with the stipulation of purchasing a surety bond.

I am not at all happy!

I was able to go back 3 owners (5-7 years) all who had clean titles. Does any one have any idea what database AZ might have accessed and why the previous 3 states did not find the "salvage" record? Is there anyway that I can do my own research to help track down what might have happened?

The seller wants to make things right and I believe that he honestly passed the vehicle along unknowingly.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you

Lou
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Old 02-11-2005, 10:46 PM   #2
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ask for half of your money back
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Old 02-11-2005, 10:50 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by LouAZ
J
The seller wants to make things right and I believe that he honestly passed the vehicle along unknowingly.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you

Lou

take a large cash settlement and walk on over to the resto mod crowd we have a lot of fun.... or give it back to the previous guy and get your money back.....its done, nothing you can do about, don't beat yourself up over this.....
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Old 02-11-2005, 10:59 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by bobs77vet
take a large cash settlement and walk on over to the resto mod crowd we have a lot of fun.... or give it back to the previous guy and get your money back.....its done, nothing you can do about, don't beat yourself up over this.....
Thanks- I think the seller would provide some cash back. The car is actually great and I would not mind keeping it. However, is there any chance that AZ MVD could have made a mistake? Do they have access to info that other states do not have???? I sure would rather have a clean title than the $$$.
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Old 02-11-2005, 11:22 PM   #5
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You are SOL. Someone in the past washed the title thru a state that didn't issue salvage titles. This was not uncommon in the 60's,70's and 80's. The deed is done now and you have to live with a flawed title. Cut the best deal you can with the seller and live with it or get your money back if you want.

You can see if you can get more information from the AZ DMV as to why a salvage title was issued and verify that it is your car. The VIN# is a pretty good indicator that there is no mistake.

You might not want to find out too much because the title may have been purchased and your car may have taken on a new identity. You could find out that your car is stolen and you could lose it. It was not uncommon to buy a title and a vin tag from a totaled vehicle and make a stolen car saleable by changing vin tags. Look closely at the tag on the windshield pillar and make sure it looks perfect.
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Old 02-11-2005, 11:24 PM   #6
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Seems strange to do that to a 1970, when you consider that cars are routinely restored by taking them entirely apart and putting them back together using lots of new parts. I am not sure how the process works but certain states have been historically easy about washing titles. Not sure how to research it. Seriously doubt it is a mistake. Did the guy actually deface your vin plate? that truly sux!


I always thought having a clean title for my car in my state put me in the clear. But with no centralized database is it possible that any of our cars (with an unknown ownership history) could have a salvage title in one of our 50 states????

I wonder if your DMV would have searched the vin and warned you about the salvage title if you had asked them BEFORE you purchased it? With no carfax available pre 1981 that's the only way you could find out. Why do I think they wouldn't look it up until after you own it?

Last edited by PRNDL; 02-11-2005 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 02-11-2005, 11:49 PM   #7
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[QUOTE=PRND21] Did the guy actually deface your vin plate? that truly sux!

He did it right in front of me.


I always thought having a clean title for my car in my state put me in the clear. But with no centralized database is it possible that any of our cars (with an unknown ownership history) could have a salvage title in one of our 50 states????

Scary thought.
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Old 02-12-2005, 01:01 AM   #8
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[QUOTE=LouAZ]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRND21
Did the guy actually deface your vin plate? that truly sux!

He did it right in front of me.


I always thought having a clean title for my car in my state put me in the clear. But with no centralized database is it possible that any of our cars (with an unknown ownership history) could have a salvage title in one of our 50 states????

Scary thought.
DAMN! I would have told him to get the f away from my car and give me more info on what the heck he found in the database. No way would I allow them to touch my car under those circumstances!
No law I know of requires that a vehicle be titled. You could hold the old title and park it in your yard as a lawn ornament for all the state should care.
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Old 02-13-2005, 12:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouAZ
Just my luck. I took delivery of my 1970 BB vert (NOM) last night and went to register it today. The seller provided a clean Florida title. Upon inspection AZ MVD ran the VIN in their data base and it came up as salvaged in 1987. AZ MVD proceeded to erase the VIN from the drivers side windshield pillar and attached a new AZ VIN while issuing a restored salvage title with the stipulation of purchasing a surety bond.

I am not at all happy!

I was able to go back 3 owners (5-7 years) all who had clean titles. Does any one have any idea what database AZ might have accessed and why the previous 3 states did not find the "salvage" record? Is there anyway that I can do my own research to help track down what might have happened?

The seller wants to make things right and I believe that he honestly passed the vehicle along unknowingly.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you

Lou
AZ BMV has a really screwed up way of doing things. I tried to do a title search on the wifes 79 and they came back with "we can only go back ten years". Never ran into this with any other state. Too much sun on the brain in AZ. On your deal I ask for my money back.
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Old 02-13-2005, 01:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87bob
AZ BMV has a really screwed up way of doing things. I tried to do a title search on the wifes 79 and they came back with "we can only go back ten years". Never ran into this with any other state. Too much sun on the brain in AZ. On your deal I ask for my money back.

I just found out that it appears that as of 2004 AZ began participating the National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS) program. This database is a national database admnistered by the DOJ. Only 10 or so states subscribe but the list is growing.

http://www.aamva.org/vehicles/veh_AutoSystNMVTIS.asp
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Old 02-13-2005, 01:24 AM   #11
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[QUOTE=LouAZ][QUOTE=PRND21] Did the guy actually deface your vin plate? that truly sux!

He did it right in front of me.


Dude,..... You let some JERK at the DMV run a screw driver over you VIN plate in front of you? If he tried it with me theyd be scraping him up off the pavement! Aint no law that allows defacement of property without a court order. Man that took some ***** on his part! Look let me give yo a little advice, Firstly NEVER take the car your registering to the DMV when you register it! Youy never know what they might come up with , their arrogent SOB's and second grab the guys arm or at least ask for the law! People are gettin awfull pushy these days!
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Old 02-13-2005, 01:31 AM   #12
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So can you find out what they supposedly found that was wrong?
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Old 02-13-2005, 01:41 AM   #13
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Let me say again, that really sux!! It's real easy to sit here and say, "I wouldn't have let that guy touch my car" but who knows what I would have done if the guy acted before I even figured out what he was doing. However, I didn't take my vette to DMV (or customs) when I processed the paperwork.
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Old 02-13-2005, 01:58 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ddecart
So can you find out what they supposedly found that was wrong?
I should but the folks that I was dealing with at MVD would not provide me the info. I have a couple of ideas on how to get around them now that I know the source of the data.

The frightening thing is that as more States join this program, they will be able to catch items from the past- transfering a clean title could become a risky proposition. Case in point...
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Old 02-13-2005, 02:01 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by PRND21
Let me say again, that really sux!! It's real easy to sit here and say, "I wouldn't have let that guy touch my car" but who knows what I would have done if the guy acted before I even figured out what he was doing. However, I didn't take my vette to DMV (or customs) when I processed the paperwork.
AZ requires that the out of state cars be inspected prior to re-titling. For a level II inspection (missing a federal sticker) you are not allowed to be in sight of the car during the inspection. The damage was done when they came to me with the paperwork. Your right it SUX!
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Old 02-13-2005, 02:10 AM   #16
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the idiots in phx told me i needed a level 2 inspection because they didn't like where the tag was on my 65. i drove away and went to scottsdale were it breezed thru.i am not sure why your car needed a level II. i built and ran a lot of bikes thru level 2s. a lot of what happens seems to be the luck of the draw.If you plan on keeping the car i would not settle for an Az assigned vin. it will screw with your insurance as well as resale. you are in a tough place. i would be tempted to do a wash in a more forgiving state. back in the day, nevada and alabama where two that come to mind. good luck finding out any info from MVD in Az. they give you phone number, that will give you another number, that will keep giving you numbers till one just dosen't answer.me, i would probably wash it , the bring it back thru one of the private 3rd party DMVs, they seem to be a lot less interested in details then the state workers.Of coyrse they might be a problem because of the age of the car. the 3rd party places can only process cars of a certin age.
good luck

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Old 02-13-2005, 02:25 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panchop
the idiots in phx told me i needed a level 2 inspection because they didn't like where the tag was on my 65. i drove away and went to scottsdale were it breezed thru. i built and ran a lot of bikes thru level 2s. a lot of what happens seems to be the luck of the draw.If you plan on keeping the car i would not settle for an Az assigned vin. it will screw with your insurance as well as resale. you are in a tough place. i would be tempted to do a wash in a more forgiving state. back in the day, nevada and alabama where two that come to mind. good luck finding out any info from MVD in Az. they give you phone number, that will give you another number, that will keep giving you numbers till one just dosen't answer.me, i would probably wash it , the bring it back thru one of the private 3rd party DMVs, they seem to be a lot less interested in details then the state workers.
good luck
They assigned me an AZ VIN and put the plate on the car and gave me an application for the special VIN. I have not yet gone down and titled the car. Any idea on how to fight them on the AZ VIN if I decide to keep it? I am so pissed I wouldn't mind hiring an attorney if need be.
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Old 02-13-2005, 02:36 AM   #18
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afraid not as i never had it go that far. since you are looking at substantial finacial damage I would think it is worth holding off and getting some more info on your options.
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Old 02-13-2005, 09:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouAZ
They assigned me an AZ VIN and put the plate on the car and gave me an application for the special VIN. I have not yet gone down and titled the car. Any idea on how to fight them on the AZ VIN if I decide to keep it? I am so pissed I wouldn't mind hiring an attorney if need be.

step back for a minute......

what you need is a car that you can legally sell to others.....you have that.....

you have a buyer who will refund your money in full .... you have that..

Spend no money or effort on this.....if you can live with the AZ title keep the car and get a cash discount....

if you can't get ......your money back
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Old 02-13-2005, 09:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobs77vet
step back for a minute......

what you need is a car that you can legally sell to others.....you have that.....

you have a buyer who will refund your money in full .... you have that..

Spend no money or effort on this.....if you can live with the AZ title keep the car and get a cash discount....

if you can't get ......your money back



I would not spend the money for an attorney on this. Not really worth the cost. The attorney fees would most likely eat up any refund you rreceive from the seller for the purchase price due to the problems you are having. Get your money back or negtioate a great deal with the seller and keep the car. Either way you win.
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