Alan 71

Hi Ed,
Nice info!!!
P-O-P is often mentioned, but not the info you have! Thanks.
Regards,
Alan

An example of the 'GM'.

Don Rickles

Trick question!

I received a "Plastic" POP with my 91 Z 28.

Ironcross

What was nice about the program is the 5 year warrantee and I used it.....The Vette started out as a 435 and within a very short time I haggled a L-88 and paid the difference between the two engines.....I put 28000 miles on it and parked it when the warranty 5 year period finally ran out {1973} as its file was over an inch thick......I drove it as a street machine, a very fast machine I might add.......

I sometimes think I personally could have been why that 5 year warrantee was dropped by GM........

the Vette still only has a few more miles than as before

wanna buy it, nearly everything is new...Inside and outi


.

Faster Rat

Evidently my car was a dealer demo, as evidenced by the 034 stamped on the bottom line...indicating 3400 miles when delivered. Just thought somebody might find this interesting.

Alan 71

Hi FR,
Interesting!
I didn't know that, and also didn't realize that the warranty was noted too.
5/50
Regards,
Alan

ed427vette

3400 is very low for a second owner POP but that does not necessarily mean its a dealer promo. It really doesn't prove anything except that the first registered owner drove the car up to 3400 miles. It wasn't "delivered" with 3400 miles. The second owner bought it from the first owner with 3400 miles and that gets indicated on the replacement POP when the warranty gets transferred over.

I would think a dealer promo would not need to register the car for demo purposes as they would have dealer plates or something like that so they would not use the first issue POP themselves. That would be reserved for the first private owner. The dealer would not need a warranty which is what the pop is used for.

The other date number indicates date of first owner purchase. ( by other date I am referring to the 06-9 stamp which is June 1969). The #2 is for seond owner.

Faster Rat

Ed, thanks for straightening that all out. Now it appears I am actually the 5th caretaker.

l2vette

My 72 did not come with the POP or for that matter much paper work at all .........bummer!

gbvette62

I'll be honest and say I don't know for sure, how the warranty was handled 45 years ago, but I'm pretty sure that today, the warranty starts when the car is put into service. It doesn't matter if it's a demo.

If a car that's being used for a demo, has a problem and needs warranty work, the warranty has to be in effect, or GM won't pay for the repair. I'm pretty sure that on cars used for demos, the warranty is running from the time the car becomes a demo. At least that's the way it was explained to me.

In 03, we bought a new CTS. The car was one of about 50 that had been used as courtesy cars, for a local Senior PGA Tour tournament. Afterwards, the cars were made available to local dealers to sell. The car we bought had about 300 miles on it, but the warranty book showed the warranty as having started at 6 miles, the miles on it when it was turned over to the Senior PGA. This is the same way that parade cars used at Indy and NASCAR events, are handled.

Demos weren't always given to salesman either. Some dealers use to (or maybe still do) make their salesman buy their cars. I have a 71 El Camino that I bought new (still have the P-O-P for it too). Salesman at the dealership I bought it from, had to buy demos, if they wanted one. I know because a friend of mine became a salesman there. The warranty started as soon as they bought their "demo".

It wasn't a bad deal though, because some of the salesman drove Z/28's, Chevelle SS's, Nova SS's, etc. These were not the kind of cars that salesman usually get for demos!

ed427vette

The warranty was in effect immediately but the dealer did not have to fill out a POP to get service done. So there is no need to give a replacement POP to a first owner. The pop is used by the owner to get warranty service from the dealer. I don't think the dealer needs to show themselves the pop of there own car to get work done. If so then every car that was in dealer stock would have a POP issued. One of my 69s was bought by the original owner out of dealer stock. He was issued a typical first owner pop. The first owner pops are done by GM with all the vital info. The dymo tape by the dealer. The replacement pops which of course are also done by GM do not have all the same info. As can be seen above.

Also the date of service does not start with when the car was delivered to the dealer but when the car is bought by the original owner. The 50k miles starts immediately. This can be proved by looking on the POP's themselves. That's why the purchase date is dymoed. Also when you look at replacement POP's you can see the date of service stamped in. This date does not always line up with when the vins were produced. This can be see when a car sits on the lot for a long time for whatever reason. When you look at the trim tags and it shows the car was built in say June but on the replacement POP the start service date shows August. It's 5 years not from when the car was made or delivered to the dealer, but from the time the firet owner took delivery. However, 50k is 50k as per the odometer.

At least this is what I've been told. I was only 2 in 1969....don't remember much from that time....

gbvette62

I was not talking about when a P-O-P was issued, but instead referencing when the warranty started. I didn't say anything that indicated that I thought the warranty started the minute a dealer received a car. What I did say was "the warranty starts when the car is put into service. It doesn't matter if it's a demo."

You said "a dealer promo would not need to register the car for demo purposes as they would have dealer plates or something like that." Based on my experience, dealer plates or registrations, had nothing to do when the warranty began, and a P-O-P did not need to be issued for the warranty to begin. I was pointing out that the warranty went into effect, when a car went into service.

The way I understand it, it made no difference if the car was used as a demo, or sold to the public, as far as GM was concerned if the car was being used the warranty was running. A demo may not have gotten a P-O-P issued to it, but the warranty would be in effect. The P-O-P was not the warranty, but just a physical record of the warranted owner, and the effective date and mileage of the warranty. The way I understand it, if you bought a demo that was driven for 6 months and 3400 miles, you did not get a full 5/50 warranty, you got the balance that was left.

I've never worked in a new car dealership, but I did spend 20 years as the fleet manager for a large national company. We had a couple hundred cars on the road, and number of trucks too. As a result, I spent a lot of time working with new car dealers, and dealing with new car warranties, and I dealt with this a coupe times.

In the case of demos, I disagree that the warranty begins when the first owner takes delivery. From my experience, the warranty begins when the car is put into service. This applied to demos, sporting event courtesy cars, dealer loaners, GM executive vehicles, press pool vehicles, etc. I may be wrong, but this is the way I remember it working from the late 70's to 90's, the years I was involved in purchasing and leasing new vehicles.

For the Corvette Forum, this all really a mute point, because very few Corvettes were ever used as demos.

71 Green 454

Thanks Alan,

Over the past 40 years I never noticed the GM in green on the dymo label!! Took it out of the file and there it is.

ed427vette

Gbvette,
I am pretty much in agreement.

The only issue is on the 2nd owner pop, they in fact do stamp in the date the car went into service but this is not on a original owner pop. The originals have the date of pickup by the owner on the dymo tape, which is the date the car went into service. That date gets stamped on the 2nd owner pop as a month/year but not the day.

Now I would like to hear from anyone who knows they have a designated original GM demo car with a original pop. I am curious if they were issued a replacement pop from the dealer through GM and if they only were to receive the balance of the 5 year warranty. Obviously they would get only the balance of the 50k mile portion.

The only reason this is any kind of issue for me is because of the pop shown above by Faster Rat. Maybe the dealers did issue 2nd owner type pop's when a demo car was sold. I never looked into it. It never came up in my travels.

I was also under the impression that most of the demos cars were early vin cars

69small block

I have mine original owners manual build sheet plastic bag it came in

7T1vette

The PoP was used like a modern credit card. The metal plate was put into a hand-operated gizmo that inked the Pop and then it was pressed onto the INFO section of the Service Dept. paperwork. This eliminated the time required to fill out the "Owner Info" section of that documentation. It sped up the processing time and reduced the manual effort required. The PoP always stayed attached to the warranty booklet...until it fell apart from MANY uses.

At least, that's how I remember it.

midvette6067

I have a 1967 BUICK P-O-P. It has tiny ADDRESS OGRAPH printed on the side edge of the OWNER INF. part of the plate. That plate also has a tiny Buick logo in the corner. Note that this 1967 Buick plate is orig., and still attached to the last page of the warranty booklet. Please also note the OWNER INF. was punched out with an Addressograph machine, so the protect-o-plate was actually two pcs. of metal glued close together. I don't know of any division (other than Buick) that did not use DYMO labels in 1967. I do know that PONTIAC was the first division in the Addressograph contract with GM, and they had "Ident-O-Plates" from 1963-1964. Thanks for reading my post. TD

Rodney Slavin

How much of this can be acquired now if you don't have it for the car?

Alan 71

Hi RS,
That's a loaded question.
"Paper Work" really gets people in a snit because much of it is now being reproduced, and, because SOME of it has to do with the details of a PARTICULAR car the question arises as to when a reproduction item becomes a counterfeit item.
The next questions then are…. to whom does it matter, how much does it matter, and under what circumstances does it matter.
Window stickers and tank sheets are being reproduced for 'amusement purposes', but for an addition fee can be aged to "look original".
Many people search for original 'gloves box' items which except for the POP aren't tied to a particular car but went into each car. This doesn't seem to bother anyone.
Regards,
Alan

Glove box items. All 'original' (I think!).
Some from my car and some purchased!


Maybe currently the most difficult to find? (Either original or reproduction.)

ed427vette

The word ADRESSOGRAPH was used earlier than I thought. Its stamped on one side. However depending on which side they put the plate on the machine the info might not be on the side with the ADRRESSOGRAPGH wording showing up. It could be on the side glued down. I was wrong about that.

As to your Buick plate. Is it a replacement plate? Replacement protecto plates had the name and address of the owner stamped in and did not use dymo tape. It could be that the original owner lost his plate or a second/third owner taking over the ramainder of the warranty. Sometimes the word "replacement" is ink stamped onto the cover of the booklet but not always.

Check out post #24 by Faster Rat for the picture.

marshal135

Boy I learned allot.
I have 85% of a tank sticker only.
Marshal