Is this wheel a safety hazard??????
06-17-2005, 03:23 PM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Is this wheel a safety hazard??????
Back to my aftermarket wheels (rear only for drag radials)
I noticed the stock wheel has a hole that fits perfectly:
see? The hole in the above, stock, wheel fits perfectly:
While the aftermarket wheel has a bigger center hole:
so it doesn't quite fit perfectly snugly around the...?? What's that part called?
I will go out and drive and if I feel out-of-round vibrations obviously I will know I have a problem, but is this an issue I should be worried about? I see with the new wheel all the weight will be on the studs.
I noticed the stock wheel has a hole that fits perfectly:
see? The hole in the above, stock, wheel fits perfectly:
While the aftermarket wheel has a bigger center hole:
so it doesn't quite fit perfectly snugly around the...?? What's that part called?
I will go out and drive and if I feel out-of-round vibrations obviously I will know I have a problem, but is this an issue I should be worried about? I see with the new wheel all the weight will be on the studs.
Last edited by PRNDL; 06-17-2005 at 03:25 PM. Reason: (To make the title a QUESTION!)
06-17-2005, 03:44 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
Yes, with the new wheel all the weight is now on the studs.... imagine how much load is on the studs when you hit a potthole at 70 mph....
There are adapter rings available to match inner and outer diameter - at least for aluminum rims - I am not sure how you would secure these rings when using steel rims....
There are adapter rings available to match inner and outer diameter - at least for aluminum rims - I am not sure how you would secure these rings when using steel rims....
06-17-2005, 03:59 PM
#3
Drifting
DON"T drive it that way!!!
Make a friend with a local machine shop and they can make you a removeable spacer that fits the wheel and the center hub tightly. It has to fit snug on both sides of the wheel will move around regardless of how tight your lug nuts are. It's not safe to drive the way it is.
I'll tell you why I know.
I had a BMW 325 with different wheels that fit like your aftermarket wheels do. They were nearly impossible to balance and it changed every time the wheel was removed. I hit a pothole one day and the wheel shifted as far as it could. Imagine a wheel with an inch of out of round travel at 70 mph. I nearly lost control of the car. A friend of mine was a machinist and he helped me make some spacers that fit right in and the wheel slipped on like an OEM one. After that I didn't have any balance problems and the car handled a whole lot better.
Bill
Make a friend with a local machine shop and they can make you a removeable spacer that fits the wheel and the center hub tightly. It has to fit snug on both sides of the wheel will move around regardless of how tight your lug nuts are. It's not safe to drive the way it is.
I'll tell you why I know.
I had a BMW 325 with different wheels that fit like your aftermarket wheels do. They were nearly impossible to balance and it changed every time the wheel was removed. I hit a pothole one day and the wheel shifted as far as it could. Imagine a wheel with an inch of out of round travel at 70 mph. I nearly lost control of the car. A friend of mine was a machinist and he helped me make some spacers that fit right in and the wheel slipped on like an OEM one. After that I didn't have any balance problems and the car handled a whole lot better.
Bill
06-17-2005, 05:17 PM
#4
Team Owner
Thread Starter
sheeeeoooot! 
might as well just get some 7" corvette rallys that will fit and scrap these wheels. I already got wheel spacers and now I have to find hub rings too???
might as well just get some 7" corvette rallys that will fit and scrap these wheels. I already got wheel spacers and now I have to find hub rings too???
06-18-2005, 12:09 AM
#5
Mark,
As you know, those wheels were on my car - and I never had ANY issues with balancing, potholes, or vibrations at any point in time.
I also did not need spacers either....
Not sure why you would have any of these issues - would it be worth trying them out?
I would think the load would be be distributed among the studs which would be sufficient, but then again, Im no engineer...
I guess you could try driving on them, and if you dont like them, you shouldnt have any trouble selling them for what you paid for them!!
The reason for my post is just to let you know honestly that I had NONE of those issues. Good Luck!
Mike
As you know, those wheels were on my car - and I never had ANY issues with balancing, potholes, or vibrations at any point in time.
I also did not need spacers either....
Not sure why you would have any of these issues - would it be worth trying them out?
I would think the load would be be distributed among the studs which would be sufficient, but then again, Im no engineer...
I guess you could try driving on them, and if you dont like them, you shouldnt have any trouble selling them for what you paid for them!!
The reason for my post is just to let you know honestly that I had NONE of those issues. Good Luck!
Mike
06-18-2005, 02:36 AM
#7
Cruising
Member Since: May 2005
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If the lugs are cone shaped where they tighten against the rim you should be fine. This will keep the wheel centered and it cannot move. Make sure you tighten the lugs to the recommended torque. The lugs just hold the wheel tight against the hub and should not be taking the load.
06-18-2005, 07:56 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
Any machine shop should be able to machine some adapters for you. There are several sellers on Ebay that offer "custom" made adapters. You would need the adapter's inner diameter to fit the axle's hub and the outer diamter to fit the hole in the rim.... it's probably easier and cheaper to sell these and get rims that fit.
I agree with the above: if the lug nuts have a taper (cone) they will center the rim, they are however not designed to take all the load everytime you hit a road imperfection.... this would be even worse with a very stiff suspension and low profile tires.
Not sure if I want to suggest this on a public forum: the adapter ring could be machined from (example) 3.5" sch80 pipe (or a pipe that is dimensional close to what you need)... that ring could be spot welded to the rim...
I agree with the above: if the lug nuts have a taper (cone) they will center the rim, they are however not designed to take all the load everytime you hit a road imperfection.... this would be even worse with a very stiff suspension and low profile tires.
Not sure if I want to suggest this on a public forum: the adapter ring could be machined from (example) 3.5" sch80 pipe (or a pipe that is dimensional close to what you need)... that ring could be spot welded to the rim...
Last edited by MYBAD79; 06-18-2005 at 08:00 AM.
06-18-2005, 07:24 PM
#10
Coming from an engineer, you have two ways to center a wheel...one by the lugs, and one by the hub center......
Hub concentric: Allows for the wheel to be centered by the hole in the center of the wheel. That hole is machined to fit tightly on the hub. Many wheels with slotted lug holes use such a system. The old ET mags are a good example which utilize an oval washer and semi tapered lug nuts. This style allows for the same rim to be used on different bolt circle patterns by just changing the lugs and washers.
Stud Concentric: Allows for the wheel to be centered by the lugs themselves. The lugs are either tapered or shanked to fit tightly on the tapered portion on the wheel. Look at the old Volkswagen Bug with the wide 5 bolt pattern, the lugs are located very close to the wheel and there is not much of a wheel center that makes contact with the hub and drum combo. The lug nuts center the wheel to the hub and drum combo.
Many large trucks use the lug concentric style rims. Can you imagine the loads placed on those lugnuts? The old style used a tapered style lug nut. Now, there are trucks running stud concentric wheels that use a tight hub to wheel center. The studs on these wheels are much smaller and allow for most of the load to be placed directly on the hub or axle center.
Both styles have different designs. But they cannot be mixed safely. If you use a stud or lug centered wheel, make sure to use a tapered lug nut which allows the wheel to fit snugly on the tapered hole on the wheel. If you are unsure, consult the wheel manufacturer. Take note though that some wheels used extended shank lug nuts to accomplish the lug centered design. These have no taper and the shank should fit tightly in the holes of the wheel. Weld wheels are an example of the shank style design.
I hope that this clarifies the question. As for the strength of the studs themselves, all automotive studs are designed to take tremendous load demands imposed on them. In fact, the safety factor is built in to take either design. As long as you do not multiply the leverage on them by too much, you should be okay. This is one primary reason that very deep wheel spacers are not reccomended. Wheel adapters however utilize two sets of studs on the adapter which helps to distribute the loads properly.
Hub concentric: Allows for the wheel to be centered by the hole in the center of the wheel. That hole is machined to fit tightly on the hub. Many wheels with slotted lug holes use such a system. The old ET mags are a good example which utilize an oval washer and semi tapered lug nuts. This style allows for the same rim to be used on different bolt circle patterns by just changing the lugs and washers.
Stud Concentric: Allows for the wheel to be centered by the lugs themselves. The lugs are either tapered or shanked to fit tightly on the tapered portion on the wheel. Look at the old Volkswagen Bug with the wide 5 bolt pattern, the lugs are located very close to the wheel and there is not much of a wheel center that makes contact with the hub and drum combo. The lug nuts center the wheel to the hub and drum combo.
Many large trucks use the lug concentric style rims. Can you imagine the loads placed on those lugnuts? The old style used a tapered style lug nut. Now, there are trucks running stud concentric wheels that use a tight hub to wheel center. The studs on these wheels are much smaller and allow for most of the load to be placed directly on the hub or axle center.
Both styles have different designs. But they cannot be mixed safely. If you use a stud or lug centered wheel, make sure to use a tapered lug nut which allows the wheel to fit snugly on the tapered hole on the wheel. If you are unsure, consult the wheel manufacturer. Take note though that some wheels used extended shank lug nuts to accomplish the lug centered design. These have no taper and the shank should fit tightly in the holes of the wheel. Weld wheels are an example of the shank style design.
I hope that this clarifies the question. As for the strength of the studs themselves, all automotive studs are designed to take tremendous load demands imposed on them. In fact, the safety factor is built in to take either design. As long as you do not multiply the leverage on them by too much, you should be okay. This is one primary reason that very deep wheel spacers are not reccomended. Wheel adapters however utilize two sets of studs on the adapter which helps to distribute the loads properly.
