Hi all,
This subject has probably been beaten to death over the years, but I thought it might be interesting to hear the debate here on the forum as I contemplate buying. There seems to be many more 454 cars available and they are garnering pretty good prices. Are most Corvette owners firmly on one side or the other or is there broad appreciation for both engines?

Personally, I'm partial to the LT1 as it is more rare and a challenge to authenticate. Seems like it adds some challenge to the experience.

 

This'll be fun...

 

I have never driven a 454 so I cannot compare to the LT-1. If you end up with the LT-1 I think you will be very happy. Mine is a '71, and from what I've heard there is a noticeable difference in performance between the '70's vs. '71'-'72's. Having said that I'm very happy with the performance of my '71. Good luck with your search. Looking forward to hearing what others have to say that are knowledgeable about the 454's and LT-1's.

Paul

 

The best comparison I know of is when Jack Murray owned a '71 LS6 ZR2 and ran it against some LT-1's at Laguna Seca raceway. He absolutely ran away from them like they were standing still.

 

never drove a LT but my last vet was a 70 454. now i have a 72 454. i know they say the 72 is less hp but this one seems faster. last one was a 4 speed. this is an auto. would love to know how the 454 matches up to the LT.

 

I've never driven either. I've read that a 70 LT1 vs, a 454 with equal gearing on the 1/4 mile will loose. It's quicker off the launch but the 454 will eventually catch it. The LT1 will handle better and quicker on curvy roads because the engine is lighter.

 

I don't think an LS6 vs an LT-1 is a fair comparison. LS6 should win all day long and the prices show that. People don't buy an LS6 or an LT-1. There were only 12 ZR2s and 118 LS6s produced in 71, the only year of production. Good luck buying one of those for less than $150k. The fair BB comparison with the LT-1 would be an LS5. Close in HP and performance each year and close in price now. There were about 4 times as many LS5s produced in 70 as LT-1s. The 350ci LT-1 put out 370hp while the 454ci LS5 put out 390hp. The LT-1 was a true high performance motor with soild lifters, high rise intake, large holley carb, and transistor ignition. Yes I'm a biased LT-1 owner but I'd take an LT-1 over and LS5 anyday.

 

LT-1 is more rare and was my first choice when I was looking for a vette, but I couldn't afford a nice one, so I bought my 68 bigblock (and been very happy with it). You are right, authenticating an LT-1 can be tricky and I would sure hate to buy a fake by mistake.

 

If you want a quick nimble high strung rever get the LT1. You want a boulavard cruiser with tons of torque get the 454. I have driven both and they are different cars. The 454 will lug around and take off. The LT1 is going to take some rpm to get into the power band. Once there it is fun.

 

You're absolutely right. It certainly didn't seem fair, but it was sure fun to see those LT-1's get humbled a bit out there on the track.

 

Gordo, you have a very accurate perception of the two. I happen to be lucky enough to own both. The stock 70 LT-1 will not keep up with the stock 454 in a 1/4 mile drag, but if you are in a closed course race track with enough room to keep the rev's up, the LT-1 will out do the BB. Notice I did say stock. If you can dump the choked off camel back exhaust manifolds, the LT-1 will light up like a fire cracker. On the other hand if you take a BB and set it up in a similar way, ( aka L-88) or the newer technology BB, the SB is toast.

There is no replacement for displacement

Bullshark

 

I agreee with an earlier reply that to compare a LT-1 to a LS-6 is un realistic. The LS-5 is a more real world comparision. Others have covered the performance aspects. But another big difference is handeling. Corvettes were designed to handle better with lighter weight small block motors. Big Block cars offers lots of power for a more affordable price. The 454 option was about 1/2 of the cost of the LT-1 option.

The LT-1 in 1970 had the highest HP of any chevy small block up to that year that did not use fuel injection. To get 370hp out of a 350 CI
motor with a carb. was quite an accomplishment. Mostly came from heads and cam, with other componets used to keep all from flying apart at 6,500 RPM.

I have a 71 LT-1 , Love it and recomend it to anyone wanting what was like having a ZO6 for its day.



David

 

Gentlemen, choose your weapons...

Is it a pistol duel or knives in a dark alley?

I am fortunate to own both a BB '66 L36 Coupe and a '70 LT1/ZR1 Coupe. Although I haven't driven an LS5 shark, I would imagine the 390hp midyear has a lot of the same driving characteristics. I think I have the best of both worlds in regard to contrast in Corvettes:

The '66 L36 Midyear Coupe
390hp/460ftlbs, M20/336 = great torque, quick off the line, and a great hiway cruiser that'll hold it's own stop light to stop light. Downside is it plows like a draft horse thru the corners. Having A/C and all the power options is a nice bonus for a truly versitile ride.

On the other hand...

The '70 ZR1/LT1 Coupe
370hp/380ftlbs, M22/456 = RESPONSIVE. This car is the definition of throttle steer. Keep her between 4-6k RPM and steer with a flick of the wrist and the back tires. The small block weight distribution and F41 make this car drive like a late model sports car. The J56 ensures it stops as well as it goes. Drawback is it's quick enought getting to 100 mph, but I can't stay there long without rattling loose a few fillings from my stupid grin...

As for EarlyShark's comment regarding the track comparisons, I would take-on an LS6 on a tight course with confidence - but not where all those extra cubes have a chance to really breath. Warren, what is the weight difference in the LT1 & LS6 engines? Has to be less than 120 lbs...

 

I am fortunate enough to have one of each (71 all orig. LT-1 and a 73 "built"454) There is nothing like the torque and raw low end power of a BB. I love my LT-1 but give me a BB anytime.
Bullshark is right!!

 

When I was shopping for my latest C3 I went for the LT-1. I like the fact that you dont see a whole lot of them. If you do go with the LT-1 check it out real carefully and documentation is always a big plus as well. I think a 454 might be more fun as a crusier type Vette (as stated above, there is no replacement for displacement) however im more of a NCRS type guy. When I want to experience a true rush I hop on one of my Ducatis (because cars are dangerous!).

Either way you go you will have a great car. Good luck!

 

The '70 ZR1/LT1 Coupe
370hp/380ftlbs, M22/456 = RESPONSIVE. This car is the definition of throttle steer. Keep her between 4-6k RPM and steer with a flick of the wrist and the back tires. The small block weight distribution and F41 make this car drive like a late model sports car. The J56 ensures it stops as well as it goes. Drawback is it's quick enought getting to 100 mph, but I can't stay there long without rattling loose a few fillings from my stupid grin...

As for EarlyShark's comment regarding the track comparisons, I would take-on an LS6 on a tight course with confidence - but not where all those extra cubes have a chance to really breath. Warren, what is the weight difference in the LT1 & LS6 engines? Has to be less than 120 lbs...[/QUOTE]

Dan,

The LS6 is 40 lbs heavier than an all iron L46. Wish I had that LT-1 ZR1 you snagged. Lucky dog.

 

....very well said guys......I 've had what is essentially an LT1 & an LS5 in the same Vette and I prefer the BB because I don't have to wind it up or shift as much when I'm driving....so for street driving the BB offers the same performance for less effort.......

I have appreciation for both engines, but the small block doesn't suit my driving style.......as for rarity and the challenge of finding it, a well documented LT1 will win hands down

66L36Coupe: What are those 456 gears like in the LT1 ?

 

Warren - You know how I feel about big blocks - especially Ontario Orange ones! The ZR1 is very special - but factory-built aluminum head big block Corvettes give me goosebumps.

Standup-

The 456's really change the feel and driving experience of a Corvette - as if a solid lifter smallblock with a lightweight flywheel wasn't enough. I drive the ZR1 mainly around where I live in West Seattle, so it's in-city driving with some short blasts from on-ramps onto highways, etc. I find that I'm in 3rd gear most of the time around town. As mentioned earlier, the gearing is, let's say, "tedious," if you have to go anywhere at freeway speeds since it's turning around 4k just to go 65mph. Mind you, I'm not complaining...

Driving the ZR1 is a sideshow in itself; the whine of the M22 is crude and obnoxious. Add the ultra-low gearing and the rip-saw solid lifter growl, and there's no way to sneak-up on anyone. The low gears make it easy to keep the revs up and place the car into a very controllable drift almost at will - that's if you have the space to do it. I have never driven an actual track-prepped race car, but as tight, nimble & controllable as this car is - it's the closest I'll ever get.

In the case of the ZR1's intended application, I think the LT1/456 combo really compliment each other: the gearing gets the engine to it's sweet spot very quickly - and keeps it there until the deed is done.

 

The LT-1 with it's far superior weight to horsepower ratios
was considered a true performance car when released in 1970.
Far superior in handling to it's BB counterpart.

Car & Driver did a comparison of the '70 LT-1 to a Porsche.
The LT-1 was comparible in handling, faster in the qtr mile.
All in all it faired quite well against the Porsche.

 

I don't have any real world comparisons between a big block and a LT-1 but, the difference between my 68 327/350hp and my 72 LT-1 is like night and day. The 327 runs out of gas around 6000 rpm and the LT-1 just keeps on pulling. I've buried that 5600 red-line on my 72 with a/c
Bryan