The Resale Red LT-1!!!!!!!
07-02-2013, 09:09 AM
#22
Le Mans Master
07-02-2013, 09:16 AM
#23
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I'm not so certain he is a used car salesman. He COULD be. The car was advertised for months on usedcorvettesforsale.com but was recently removed. I sent an email the the guy asking if it were still for sale and he said it is. Thus giving me the impression that it is his personal vehicle. 
07-02-2013, 09:23 AM
#24
Pro
If I recall, you were looking a couple of months ago for the perfect car. IF you still are, I would keep looking. Some of the ones you were considering earlier seemed nicer and priced better. Just my opinion.
07-02-2013, 09:27 AM
#25
Race Director
07-02-2013, 09:54 AM
#26
Team Owner
You stated that the car was War Bonnet Yellow and repainted red. I assumed that you could actually read the trim tag to know that it should have been WBY.
But, maybe that was too much to assume....
If you didn't want honest responses to your post, why did you post in the first place? There are many, many more 'clone' LT-1 cars created from non-LT-1 cars that the odds of my assessment being correct are pretty high. That car has all the signs of being a 'clone'. REAL LT-1 cars don't get repainted non-factory colors.
I thought you might actually want to know that spending 44K on a clone car would be a pretty big mistake. But, maybe you want to leave your head in the sand. If you still think it's real, at least find someone who has the skills and knowledge to look it over before you throw that kind of money at that car.
I do think that car is nicely done. And, even if it is a clone, it's probably worth $30K -- but NOT $44K.
But, maybe that was too much to assume....
If you didn't want honest responses to your post, why did you post in the first place? There are many, many more 'clone' LT-1 cars created from non-LT-1 cars that the odds of my assessment being correct are pretty high. That car has all the signs of being a 'clone'. REAL LT-1 cars don't get repainted non-factory colors.
I thought you might actually want to know that spending 44K on a clone car would be a pretty big mistake. But, maybe you want to leave your head in the sand. If you still think it's real, at least find someone who has the skills and knowledge to look it over before you throw that kind of money at that car.
I do think that car is nicely done. And, even if it is a clone, it's probably worth $30K -- but NOT $44K.
07-02-2013, 09:58 AM
#27
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You stated that the car was War Bonnet Yellow and repainted red. I assumed that you could actually read the trim tag to know that it should have been WBY.
But, maybe that was too much to assume....
If you didn't want honest responses to your post, why did you post in the first place? There are many, many more 'clone' LT-1 cars created from non-LT-1 cars that the odds of my assessment being correct are pretty high. That car has all the signs of being a 'clone'. REAL LT-1 cars don't get repainted non-factory colors.
I thought you might actually want to know that spending 44K on a clone car would be a pretty big mistake. But, maybe you want to leave your head in the sand. If you still think it's real, at least find someone who has the skills and knowledge to look it over before you throw that kind of money at that car.
I do think that car is nicely done. And, even if it is a clone, it's probably worth $30K -- but NOT $44K.
But, maybe that was too much to assume....
If you didn't want honest responses to your post, why did you post in the first place? There are many, many more 'clone' LT-1 cars created from non-LT-1 cars that the odds of my assessment being correct are pretty high. That car has all the signs of being a 'clone'. REAL LT-1 cars don't get repainted non-factory colors.
I thought you might actually want to know that spending 44K on a clone car would be a pretty big mistake. But, maybe you want to leave your head in the sand. If you still think it's real, at least find someone who has the skills and knowledge to look it over before you throw that kind of money at that car.
I do think that car is nicely done. And, even if it is a clone, it's probably worth $30K -- but NOT $44K.
Why the "why did I post in the first place?" response. I don't get it. I never doubted your assessment. I wanted to simply why you thought he could be a clone. That's all.
07-02-2013, 10:20 AM
#28
Melting Slicks
Its pretty simple and its been stated over and over.
1. Color change as you already knew is a killer and as you and others stated effects the price by $10,000 maybe more.
2. WB isn't not the best resale color. I love WB but and owned one of the nicest LS6 WB cars on the planet and it effected the value.
3. Just because it has a POP doesn't mean its real. Its unfortunate but true. You have to have it examined by a professional.
4. There are so many other variables that make that car desirable or have value. What was done to the motor? Was it rebuilt with NOS factory LT-1 parts or aftermarket "like" parts? NO hit body? Previous rust, windshield frame, drive train, etc. You can buy a lot of LT-1 for $50,000 that has real appeal and won't need $10,000 to $20,000 spent on the car over the next 1 to 3 years depending on what you going to use the car for.
4.5. There is a fine line between a car with paperwork and a car that's been properly restored. Not all cars are going to retain their paperwork. If you look closely there are signs if it was real. Anything can be faked we know this, but its also the cost of restoration and what your really going to use the car for? People sink endless amounts of money into restorods to never see that money back again. So what are you really looking for an NCRS type car or a really nice restored car that for "The Money" you can't duplicate what's sitting there?
5. Yes 70 LT-1 are the most desirable but not as "drivable" with 11:1 compression. Not that the 71 is too much better but do you good gas to run in the car 100 octane plus?
These are factors that need to be thought about. If you looking for something that leans towards NCRS or something that's going to holds or retain it desirability/resale then you need a NCRS knowledgeable person to look at the car for you.
Oh and did you sell your 2008 Z06?
1. Color change as you already knew is a killer and as you and others stated effects the price by $10,000 maybe more.
2. WB isn't not the best resale color. I love WB but and owned one of the nicest LS6 WB cars on the planet and it effected the value.
3. Just because it has a POP doesn't mean its real. Its unfortunate but true. You have to have it examined by a professional.
4. There are so many other variables that make that car desirable or have value. What was done to the motor? Was it rebuilt with NOS factory LT-1 parts or aftermarket "like" parts? NO hit body? Previous rust, windshield frame, drive train, etc. You can buy a lot of LT-1 for $50,000 that has real appeal and won't need $10,000 to $20,000 spent on the car over the next 1 to 3 years depending on what you going to use the car for.
4.5. There is a fine line between a car with paperwork and a car that's been properly restored. Not all cars are going to retain their paperwork. If you look closely there are signs if it was real. Anything can be faked we know this, but its also the cost of restoration and what your really going to use the car for? People sink endless amounts of money into restorods to never see that money back again. So what are you really looking for an NCRS type car or a really nice restored car that for "The Money" you can't duplicate what's sitting there?
5. Yes 70 LT-1 are the most desirable but not as "drivable" with 11:1 compression. Not that the 71 is too much better but do you good gas to run in the car 100 octane plus?
These are factors that need to be thought about. If you looking for something that leans towards NCRS or something that's going to holds or retain it desirability/resale then you need a NCRS knowledgeable person to look at the car for you.
Oh and did you sell your 2008 Z06?
Last edited by LPE385; 07-02-2013 at 10:27 AM.
07-02-2013, 10:41 AM
#29
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Its pretty simple and its been stated over and over.
1. Color change as you already knew is a killer and as you and others stated effects the price by $10,000 maybe more.
2. WB isn't not the best resale color. I love WB but and owned one of the nicest LS6 WB cars on the planet and it effected the value.
3. Just because it has a POP doesn't mean its real. Its unfortunate but true. You have to have it examined by a professional.
4. There are so many other variables that make that car desirable or have value. What was done to the motor? Was it rebuilt with NOS factory LT-1 parts or aftermarket "like" parts? NO hit body? Previous rust, windshield frame, drive train, etc. You can buy a lot of LT-1 for $50,000 that has real appeal and won't need $10,000 to $20,000 spent on the car over the next 1 to 3 years depending on what you going to use the car for.
4.5. There is a fine line between a car with paperwork and a car that's been properly restored. Not all cars are going to retain their paperwork. If you look closely there are signs if it was real. Anything can be faked we know this, but its also the cost of restoration and what your really going to use the car for? People sink endless amounts of money into restorods to never see that money back again. So what are you really looking for an NCRS type car or a really nice restored car that for "The Money" you can't duplicate what's sitting there?
5. Yes 70 LT-1 are the most desirable but not as "drivable" with 11:1 compression. Not that the 71 is too much better but do you good gas to run in the car 100 octane plus?
These are factors that need to be thought about. If you looking for something that leans towards NCRS or something that's going to holds or retain it desirability/resale then you need a NCRS knowledgeable person to look at the car for you.
Oh and did you sell your 2008 Z06?
1. Color change as you already knew is a killer and as you and others stated effects the price by $10,000 maybe more.
2. WB isn't not the best resale color. I love WB but and owned one of the nicest LS6 WB cars on the planet and it effected the value.
3. Just because it has a POP doesn't mean its real. Its unfortunate but true. You have to have it examined by a professional.
4. There are so many other variables that make that car desirable or have value. What was done to the motor? Was it rebuilt with NOS factory LT-1 parts or aftermarket "like" parts? NO hit body? Previous rust, windshield frame, drive train, etc. You can buy a lot of LT-1 for $50,000 that has real appeal and won't need $10,000 to $20,000 spent on the car over the next 1 to 3 years depending on what you going to use the car for.
4.5. There is a fine line between a car with paperwork and a car that's been properly restored. Not all cars are going to retain their paperwork. If you look closely there are signs if it was real. Anything can be faked we know this, but its also the cost of restoration and what your really going to use the car for? People sink endless amounts of money into restorods to never see that money back again. So what are you really looking for an NCRS type car or a really nice restored car that for "The Money" you can't duplicate what's sitting there?
5. Yes 70 LT-1 are the most desirable but not as "drivable" with 11:1 compression. Not that the 71 is too much better but do you good gas to run in the car 100 octane plus?
These are factors that need to be thought about. If you looking for something that leans towards NCRS or something that's going to holds or retain it desirability/resale then you need a NCRS knowledgeable person to look at the car for you.
Oh and did you sell your 2008 Z06?
And yes the 2008 Z06 was sold to a forum member here!!!!!!!
07-02-2013, 10:58 AM
#30
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I found one early in the year. An LT-1 convertible. It is absolutely beautiful!!!!!!!!!! Recently top flighted last year. I got as far as agreeing on price and receiving a bill of sale! My money was to be sent on Monday morning once I get a copy of signed bill of sale.
WELL, it turns out he sent me an email the night before saying he made an error in the judging score of 97%. It turned out to be 94%. I never saw the judging sheets. I should have requested them before. But when I requested them and wanted to know EXACTLY what was marked off he went ballistic and shot back at me if his car isn't good enough for me then buzz off. That was such crap. If I am gonna fork over tens of thousands of dollars I am entitled to know exactly what I am getting. He convinced me that I should trust a NCRS member and I did until the end when he gave me incorrect information.
I may have missed out on a great car but I don't like dealing with people like this!!!!!!!!
07-02-2013, 11:07 AM
#31
Burning Brakes
94 and 97 are still a top flight.
Do you want to drive the car or let it sit in your garage?
If you like the red color and its a high quality paint job, I dont think you need to take a full 10k deduct in the price as long as it doesnt need to be repainted tomorrow.
Gary
Do you want to drive the car or let it sit in your garage?
If you like the red color and its a high quality paint job, I dont think you need to take a full 10k deduct in the price as long as it doesnt need to be repainted tomorrow.
Gary
07-02-2013, 11:13 AM
#32
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If you want the red car, Black, go get it.
07-02-2013, 11:15 AM
#33
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94 and 97 are still a top flight.
Do you want to drive the car or let it sit in your garage?
If you like the red color and its a high quality paint job, I dont think you need to take a full 10k deduct in the price as long as it doesnt need to be repainted tomorrow.
Gary
Do you want to drive the car or let it sit in your garage?
If you like the red color and its a high quality paint job, I dont think you need to take a full 10k deduct in the price as long as it doesnt need to be repainted tomorrow.
Gary
That car would sit in my garage and go to shows in it. It would be a museum piece. However, I would get a driver as well at the right price.
I would not have offerred that amount if it were a 94. I accepted the price based on it being advertised as a 97, period and the seller did not want to have further discussion.
07-02-2013, 11:37 AM
#34
Burning Brakes
No such things as a high top flight.
In order to be able to advance a car past a regional top flight you need to pass a performance verification. your other option is an unrestored survivor.
Once that has been accomplished, you can try to go for a duntov at a national convention if the car has scored at least a 97 raw score at a regional event and passed a performance verification at a regional.
This all needs to be done within a two year period.
The top flight the car has right now most likely wont count because of the date.
I top flighted my 69 in 2012 at the kissimmee regional. I passed a performance verification in 2013. I will try one more time at a higher score at the next regional in 2014. If I can score a 97 I will try for a duntov. I drive the hell out of my car and it is pretty much a survivor. Very hard to score a 97 with an unrestored car. If I wanted to score a 97 I could pull out my checkbook and order up a bunch of brand new aftermarket components for under the hood, but not my style. These cars can only be original once.
Gary
In order to be able to advance a car past a regional top flight you need to pass a performance verification. your other option is an unrestored survivor.
Once that has been accomplished, you can try to go for a duntov at a national convention if the car has scored at least a 97 raw score at a regional event and passed a performance verification at a regional.
This all needs to be done within a two year period.
The top flight the car has right now most likely wont count because of the date.
I top flighted my 69 in 2012 at the kissimmee regional. I passed a performance verification in 2013. I will try one more time at a higher score at the next regional in 2014. If I can score a 97 I will try for a duntov. I drive the hell out of my car and it is pretty much a survivor. Very hard to score a 97 with an unrestored car. If I wanted to score a 97 I could pull out my checkbook and order up a bunch of brand new aftermarket components for under the hood, but not my style. These cars can only be original once.
Gary
07-02-2013, 11:42 AM
#35
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All you say is true but again I based my agreed price on a 97 car. Not a 94 car. I figured a 97 car would be worth more than a 94 car.
The car I speak off was top flighted late last year so if it were a 97 car it would still be eligible. But it wasn't.
I do not think you would disagree with the following statement. A better car is worth more money.
The car I speak off was top flighted late last year so if it were a 97 car it would still be eligible. But it wasn't.
I do not think you would disagree with the following statement. A better car is worth more money.
No such things as a high top flight.
In order to be able to advance a car past a regional top flight you need to pass a performance verification. your other option is an unrestored survivor.
Once that has been accomplished, you can try to go for a duntov at a national convention if the car has scored at least a 97 raw score at a regional event and passed a performance verification at a regional.
This all needs to be done within a two year period.
The top flight the car has right now most likely wont count because of the date.
I top flighted my 69 in 2012 at the kissimmee regional. I passed a performance verification in 2013. I will try one more time at a higher score at the next regional in 2014. If I can score a 97 I will try for a duntov. I drive the hell out of my car and it is pretty much a survivor. Very hard to score a 97 with an unrestored car. If I wanted to score a 97 I could pull out my checkbook and order up a bunch of brand new aftermarket components for under the hood, but not my style. These cars can only be original once.
Gary
In order to be able to advance a car past a regional top flight you need to pass a performance verification. your other option is an unrestored survivor.
Once that has been accomplished, you can try to go for a duntov at a national convention if the car has scored at least a 97 raw score at a regional event and passed a performance verification at a regional.
This all needs to be done within a two year period.
The top flight the car has right now most likely wont count because of the date.
I top flighted my 69 in 2012 at the kissimmee regional. I passed a performance verification in 2013. I will try one more time at a higher score at the next regional in 2014. If I can score a 97 I will try for a duntov. I drive the hell out of my car and it is pretty much a survivor. Very hard to score a 97 with an unrestored car. If I wanted to score a 97 I could pull out my checkbook and order up a bunch of brand new aftermarket components for under the hood, but not my style. These cars can only be original once.
Gary
07-02-2013, 11:43 AM
#36
Melting Slicks
Hello and thanks for responding in my thread. I appreciate it. This is a tough comparison.
The 1970 would be more valuable and desirable than the 1971 due to the horsepower.
The trouble would be to determine how much a NOM devalues a 1970 Lt-1 and how much a resale red paint job would devalue a 1971 Lt-1? That is the question.
The 1970 would be more valuable and desirable than the 1971 due to the horsepower.
The trouble would be to determine how much a NOM devalues a 1970 Lt-1 and how much a resale red paint job would devalue a 1971 Lt-1? That is the question.
Look at the AIM, and go to the LT1 UPC sheet, almost all of the LT1 changes are with the engine. So if it doesn't have an LT1 engine, it's really not an LT1 anymore.
I would actually value a NOM LT1 below an equivalent condition small block with the original motor still in the car. The car is only original once.
If this was not the case, it would be VERY easy to buy a NOM small block cheap, and buy a LT1 tachometer, and pretty much all the other changes are shared with the LS5, so those are available. And poof - you have a LT1 you can mark up for a nice profit.
07-02-2013, 11:45 AM
#37
Melting Slicks
You can't even count on an NCRS person either!!!!!!
I found one early in the year. An LT-1 convertible. It is absolutely beautiful!!!!!!!!!! Recently top flighted last year. I got as far as agreeing on price and receiving a bill of sale! My money was to be sent on Monday morning once I get a copy of signed bill of sale.
WELL, it turns out he sent me an email the night before saying he made an error in the judging score of 97%. It turned out to be 94%. I never saw the judging sheets. I should have requested them before. But when I requested them and wanted to know EXACTLY what was marked off he went ballistic and shot back at me if his car isn't good enough for me then buzz off. That was such crap. If I am gonna fork over tens of thousands of dollars I am entitled to know exactly what I am getting. He convinced me that I should trust a NCRS member and I did until the end when he gave me incorrect information.
I may have missed out on a great car but I don't like dealing with people like this!!!!!!!!
I found one early in the year. An LT-1 convertible. It is absolutely beautiful!!!!!!!!!! Recently top flighted last year. I got as far as agreeing on price and receiving a bill of sale! My money was to be sent on Monday morning once I get a copy of signed bill of sale.
WELL, it turns out he sent me an email the night before saying he made an error in the judging score of 97%. It turned out to be 94%. I never saw the judging sheets. I should have requested them before. But when I requested them and wanted to know EXACTLY what was marked off he went ballistic and shot back at me if his car isn't good enough for me then buzz off. That was such crap. If I am gonna fork over tens of thousands of dollars I am entitled to know exactly what I am getting. He convinced me that I should trust a NCRS member and I did until the end when he gave me incorrect information.
I may have missed out on a great car but I don't like dealing with people like this!!!!!!!!
. As for the 97% or the 94% its not a big deal it all depends on what were the points deducted for. The first car I took Top Flight my power ant. didn't want to work and my interior lights didn't want to work that day "survivor car" but still operations you can loose big points fast.
The most important thing is this, "Top Flight" doesn't mean its REAL or ORIGINAL. Just that it was restored to a "Like Original" condition. You still have to look at the car and KNOW WHAT YOUR LOOKING AT. I've seen judges make mistakes, but its a good starting point.
07-02-2013, 01:04 PM
#38
Pro
At the last couple of Mecum auctions, I saw a restored numbers matching '69 427 390 4-speed and a restored numbers matching '70 427 400 4-speed go for $26,000 and $27,000. One was a coupe, and the other was a conv., I forget which. In view of this, I don't see how a questionable non-correct LT-1 can go for $44,000. Until recently, there was a green LT-1 going for $37,000 in NJ, but the seller had it in Auto Trader for many many months. I don't know if it ever sold.
07-02-2013, 01:33 PM
#39
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At the last couple of Mecum auctions, I saw a restored numbers matching '69 427 390 4-speed and a restored numbers matching '70 427 400 4-speed go for $26,000 and $27,000. One was a coupe, and the other was a conv., I forget which. In view of this, I don't see how a questionable non-correct LT-1 can go for $44,000. Until recently, there was a green LT-1 going for $37,000 in NJ, but the seller had it in Auto Trader for many many months. I don't know if it ever sold.
"The car I have is between NCRS and Driver quality. It would take some items needed to be judged versus paint. Cars have certainly been NCRS with a paint change.
Its all about the buy, these cars are down somewhat as in the past. Cars at this level 3 years ago were mid 50's and up. You can buy LT1's back the money..with a owner history and POP is the selling point."
07-02-2013, 01:49 PM
#40
Pro
[I]"The car I have is between NCRS and Driver quality. It would take some items needed to be judged versus paint."
This is like saying it's worth between $10,000 and $50,000; not helpful.
This is like saying it's worth between $10,000 and $50,000; not helpful.