Doubt regarding "matchig numbers"
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Instructor
Joined: Sep 2015
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Doubt regarding "matchig numbers"
Hi all, I got a C3 79 vette and what it means when people say "original matching numbers"? I mean, how many things are there in the car that need to match?
Thank you
Siol.
Thank you
Siol.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2011
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From: Syracuse NY
My car is registered as a 72...it had a 72 Motor and a 72 Frame....everything else was transplanted from a 81. (Dont ask why, I dont know) The previous owner bragged to me when selling me the car that it was 'numbers matching'...
Last edited by Scottd; Mar 29, 2016 at 06:00 PM.
Team Owner
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From: Westminster Maryland
Hi s,
For a FEW people it includes all the parts on the car that had a part number and/or date code on them that would indicated they would be typical for when that particular car was assembled.
Beyond the engine, transmission, and rear differential that are often discussed, it can include things like the carburetor, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, alternator, starter, and many more.
There are a few numbered/dated parts on the chassis, for instance shock absorbers.
In addition there are parts in the interior with part numbers and date codes, like seat covers and door panels.
The frame had the car's serial number stamped on it, and the birdcage parts have date codes stamped into them.
So LOTS of numbers to look for IF numbers matter to the owner.
Regards,
Alan
For a FEW people it includes all the parts on the car that had a part number and/or date code on them that would indicated they would be typical for when that particular car was assembled.
Beyond the engine, transmission, and rear differential that are often discussed, it can include things like the carburetor, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, alternator, starter, and many more.
There are a few numbered/dated parts on the chassis, for instance shock absorbers.
In addition there are parts in the interior with part numbers and date codes, like seat covers and door panels.
The frame had the car's serial number stamped on it, and the birdcage parts have date codes stamped into them.
So LOTS of numbers to look for IF numbers matter to the owner.
Regards,
Alan
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Crossville TN
And, if that's your 'thing', you can buy lots of new aftermarket parts and have the old date-code put on them for more money! And, when you get done doing all that, you can have a bonifide "numbers matching" car....that doesn't have any original parts left on it. 
"Numbers matching" usually means that the seller wants more money for the car because the VIN code, the engine numbers, transmission numbers and the frame all match and [hopefully] came with the car from the factory. How well you can prove all that--and whether that means anything to you--is up for grabs.
"Numbers matching" usually means that the seller wants more money for the car because the VIN code, the engine numbers, transmission numbers and the frame all match and [hopefully] came with the car from the factory. How well you can prove all that--and whether that means anything to you--is up for grabs.
Last edited by 7T1vette; Mar 30, 2016 at 01:22 AM.
Administrator
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The engine and transamission are the only numbers that "match" i.e. "are the same as" the VIN of the car/chassis.
All the other numbers people talk about are "correct," meaning they are an appropriate part number and date. But they could be picked up anywhere.
Only the engine/trans numbers actually "match" anything, other than the int/ext colors and the trim tag.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Myrtle Beach SC
You are opening a can of worms here bud.....but GENERALLY it means the engine, frame, transmission and all mechanical parts are original to the car and match the VIN. (some parts are date coded, they dont actually have a VIN) Some people just look for matching engine and VIN....others get down to brake calipers and nuts and bolts....
My car is registered as a 72...it had a 72 Motor and a 72 Frame....everything else was transplanted from a 81. (Dont ask why, I dont know) The previous owner bragged to me when selling me the car that it was 'numbers matching'...
My car is registered as a 72...it had a 72 Motor and a 72 Frame....everything else was transplanted from a 81. (Dont ask why, I dont know) The previous owner bragged to me when selling me the car that it was 'numbers matching'...
My view is there are three layers to one's interpretation of what "matching number's mean...Scott's former owner personalized like one would expect a seller to do but yet with a limited number of qualifications.
- Matching Numbers: Body Assembly (interior and exterior colors match trim tag)
- Matching Numbers: Engine & Transmission (above...re Vettebuyer)
- Matching Numbers: Date Codes & Broadcast Codes (everything...re Alan71)
So collector car enthusisasts have options of what they would like to define as matching numbers but buyers need to understand this mix of definitions and quiz sellers what their definition is when considering a particular vehicle. Corvette 1973-82 owners have the benefit of the GMAD buildsheet that lists major broadcast codes on components that match up with parts on car and help tremendously to reconcile mechanical codes and date codes.
I wrote up a "brief" of my 1978's matching numbers while learning some layout software (CS6). Take a look!
1978 Matching Numbers
The bottom line...three layers to understanding "matching numbers." Hope this helps!
Last edited by hunt4cleanair; Mar 30, 2016 at 04:30 AM.
Is my vette stock?? HAHA
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Most car adds that say that will be the original engine, maybe transmission. People that are flippers don't know usually, just in it for the money and its a selling point. People around here that say it will usually list everything that matches the vin or is original equipment
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Safety Car
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From: Indy Indiana
let me add to the discussion that matching numbers has a connotation of 'original'. to many here, matching numbers does not mean much, it is just a term that has a loose meaning.
to the novice, it may mean that the car has a level of originality that the novice will think it has. many a transaction has gone bad due to this perception.
given the engine stamp, there is great disparity over what the factory stamped or cast onto the parts as the parts were manufactured and the vehicle was assembled. There is an entire 3rd party market out there that deals in stamping and broaching engine pads and casting parts with varying quality to make the part look like it came from the factory at or near the time the car was built when indeed it did not. the best of the best forgeries compete against the best of the best sleuths to determine authenticity.
A subset of the classic car market has a basis on parts being original and factory stamped, and folks pay good money for that characteristic. And they sell at a high price based on that characteristic also.
The classic car market has been tainted by these forgeries and ignorant buyers. lawsuits have been filed due to the bad faith transactions.
to the novice, it may mean that the car has a level of originality that the novice will think it has. many a transaction has gone bad due to this perception.
given the engine stamp, there is great disparity over what the factory stamped or cast onto the parts as the parts were manufactured and the vehicle was assembled. There is an entire 3rd party market out there that deals in stamping and broaching engine pads and casting parts with varying quality to make the part look like it came from the factory at or near the time the car was built when indeed it did not. the best of the best forgeries compete against the best of the best sleuths to determine authenticity.
A subset of the classic car market has a basis on parts being original and factory stamped, and folks pay good money for that characteristic. And they sell at a high price based on that characteristic also.
The classic car market has been tainted by these forgeries and ignorant buyers. lawsuits have been filed due to the bad faith transactions.
Last edited by joewill; Mar 30, 2016 at 09:45 AM.
Team Owner
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From: Crossville TN
And, since "looking like it is factory original" (including stamped numbers, dates, etc) is all that NCRS requires, that created the '3rd party market' in such deviousness. If that aspect were not such an integral part of NCRS judging, there would be no such 'under-the-counter' market. No one else really cares (unless they are buying/selling museum pieces).
