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I'm a ways off from worrying about this, but I managed to break one of the tabs on the headlight housing. Should I hunt for a new one or is JB welding this acceptable? All the other bolts (5 on each) came out fine but this one...I didn't have good enough light when doing this so I was going purely on feel...and it was turning - ugg.
Prior owner broke a headlight tab. I rewelded, (aluminum) the tab back into place and you literally couldn't tell the repair was made.
Now that everything is apart and my work area is somewhat organized, I had a few questions as I start planning the repair. The instructions are to weld the center insert into/onto the OE channel However, the aluminum rivets stick down about 1/4" that will prevent the insert from sitting flush...I'm planning on grinding these down a bit so that I can get a good fit and enough contact for the plug welds... or should I try to flatten them a bit? Looking for some advise on this.
Now that everything is apart and my work area is somewhat organized, I had a few questions as I start planning the repair. The instructions are to weld the center insert into/onto the OE channel However, the aluminum rivets stick down about 1/4" that will prevent the insert from sitting flush...I'm planning on grinding these down a bit so that I can get a good fit and enough contact for the plug welds... or should I try to flatten them a bit? Looking for some advise on this.
interesting question . I just read the instructions given to you previously and there's no mention of what to do with the rivet(s) .But they say to weld it on so anything in the way has to go. As for how to get rid of them ,total removal or just grind them flat underneath ?
My answer would be to just grind them down to smooth again , why ? because when I removed my exact same rivets I damaged the glass at the top as they were stuck in the GLASS really well and would have still held the glass /metal as one if I had just smoothed them off . But i was removing all the steel unlike you .
Also if you just grind them down for now you can move forward and if you change your mind later its not to late to just drill down from the top , right through and put a new rivet in .
1.) Grind down the rivet and drill it out completely. Then it can be replaced with another solid aluminum rivet just like the one you drilled out but with a longer shank on it. They make them that way. When you get the channel installed...drill out the hole in it and install the solid rivet and buck it.
2.). Take the time to make a template and make the template where these rivets are exposed. Transfer your template to the new channel and drill out holes so the rivets are now going into the new channel. The new channel will sit flush.
If you can not tell where to drill the holes in the new channel due to so much missing material at the end and you do not know how far to extend it. Then option 1 is the way I would go due to I have the correct rivets on hand.
No real new update, but I do have a question for some feedback. I'm looking at patching the hinge pillar post were it's rusted out with some new sheet steel. Should I be looking at butt joint or just lapping? Not easy to get in there and I probably could get away with not doing it, but while I'm in there I thought I'd try - if anything for the experience. Also, what gage would be best? I've got some #22 and some #16. The #22 seems to be about right...maybe a little thin. Your comments on experience here would be great. The first page I think has some photos of what I'm dealing with on the #3 mount (although cleaned up a bit better now.
Next I've got to remove the #2 & #3 frame cage mounts - I'm just going to cut them off and put new ones on.
just remember your new insert has to fit up in the pillar , it should be made for a snug fit to the pillar inside dimensions , so as to help with an exact fit ? not sure on that as I haven't seen one . As to butt welds or overlap , I chose full butt weld and bevelled the edges to get more weld on them . There is enough room to get some weld on the back side on the outer side of the pillar . the inner side of that area has 3 layers of steel . 1 is insert 2 is pillar 3 is the edge of the big plate that runs behind the seats , it folds around and is spot welded to pillar
In your pic what's left of your original factory "insert " although originally smaller than your replacemment has rust expanded and has to be taken out completely to make the room. This is where it gets dusty, dirty and just plain messy .Depending on how much strength is left in your PILLAR is how you can get rid of that extra rusted out steel.
How I did mine after dropping out what was left of the rocker channel(s), which left just the sides of the insert (no middle section) so now I had 4 pieces to remove . First up try a screw driver or similar tool GENTLY in the join from different angles ,keep watching the pillar steel for any signs of buckling ,sometimes I used a paint scraper under the end of the screw driver to reinforce against the force, I got a lot of separation by doing this way first. Then its out with the airdriven 3 inch grinder to get at the rest of it .
Depending on how the spot welder controller was feeling back in the day is to how many spot welds you need to get at . I know the AIM shows little X,s but in reality ,well I did two cars and they were way different , the 74 had way more than the 69 . an average of 6 spot welds each side of insert.
Wear good PPE as well , its a dirty job with lots of metal flying around when your grinding
No real new update, but I do have a question for some feedback. I'm looking at patching the hinge pillar post were it's rusted out with some new sheet steel. Should I be looking at butt joint or just lapping? Not easy to get in there and I probably could get away with not doing it, but while I'm in there I thought I'd try - if anything for the experience. Also, what gage would be best? I've got some #22 and some #16. The #22 seems to be about right...maybe a little thin. Your comments on experience here would be great. The first page I think has some photos of what I'm dealing with on the #3 mount (although cleaned up a bit better now.
Next I've got to remove the #2 & #3 frame cage mounts - I'm just going to cut them off and put new ones on.
It is so hard to respond to what method of welding would work best for you ...so...photos are required. Not knowing if you are cutting out bad steel and then making a template and trying to get the new steel plate to fit in like a puzzle.....or place a larger piece over the hole you cut out. Need to know.
ALSO...using the crash adhesive can also be used for adding in plates of steel ....DEPENDING on what they are being used for.
Because prepping the steel and getting it free of rust so a weld-thru primer can be applied is no different than getting teh steel clean and ground down rough so an APPROVED epoxy adhesive can bond that plate in place and due to it is an epoxy base...it will NOT promote rust.
@bazza77 I've test fit the inserts and the inserts are not 'tight' from side to side. There's 1/16" - 3/32" on either side - for both the A and B pillar inserts. You can see it in your photos as well. I'm wondering if you're able to get a good weld in the plug weld slots? Did you shim or clamp tight? Again, not a show car, but I just want to make sure it's solid and goes back together so I can drive!
DUB - I'll get some pics up soon. I'm still working on cleaning everything up. Grinding down to clean steel then I'll blast what I can. My plan is to trace some paper templates where metal should be and then cut a steel plug to weld in place. I'm thinking that it will be easiest (as I don't weld for a living) to lap weld vs trying to get a perfect fit, but we'll see. In the case of lap welding plates in, I'm trying to determine if welding the plate in from the inside or outside of the pillar...or both maybe... I really wish I had some donor pillar ends to use. I've called around but no luck
I do have another question. I'll try and get this dim. from the other pillar but I wanted to confirm or get the dimension (if someone has this accessible) from the back of the pillar to the inner edge of the pillar along the center rocker channel end. It angles off on the inside and the to pillar edges are not at the same angle. The inside of the drivers side is shot and when I but my plate to weld and repair I want to make sure I get it right so the panel fits back on correctly... I'm probably not doing a good job of explaining this. I'll attach a quick sketch and hopefully it will make sense... I'm ASSuming that the pillar edges start up where the channel ends but I want to get some feedback
ok this is the inside of the right hand side of car but should be same as in mirror of left .
I actually used a set square where its black texta ,from bottom of inner hole (smaller of the two) butted up against the back wall of pillar ,then 3 inches down and its 3 and 8/10 s across the bottom .
you can see the row of Holes along the bottom ,that's where the pillar welded straight to the original rocker channel . The 5 holes up above were the original insert to pillar
view showing towards front of car ,that small tab had 4 welds straight to rocker channel
outside of pillar ,again 5 spot welds to channel, 5 above to insert
and from inside , you can see where insert sat
not sure if these pics are helpful ,just trying to give you an idea what it did look like
@bazza77 I've test fit the inserts and the inserts are not 'tight' from side to side. There's 1/16" - 3/32" on either side - for both the A and B pillar inserts. You can see it in your photos as well. I'm wondering if you're able to get a good weld in the plug weld slots? Did you shim or clamp tight? Again, not a show car, but I just want to make sure it's solid and goes back together so I can drive!
You need to get the pics on here of what you have
the plug weld slots are indeed to attach your new insert to pillar, by the time you finish welding all the "plugs" you will have more weld than what the factory spot welded .
About the gaps you mentioned , this is where my repair differs as I used all original pieces and mine was a nice snug fit (as you would expect). I butt welded my pillar repair pieces in and bevelled the edges to get more weld on and I put weld on both sides where I could .
Using this repair kit is unchartered territory for me, others have said to shim but they also said to put the body back on before welding.
main thing is ,don't worry , there's enough guys on here that HAVE done this that will come along and help
I know I can get you pillar posts that weld to the rocker channel if you need them. I know someone who would cut them out of a birdcage...but they would not be a 'donor'.
As for the pieces that you are trying to slip into the factory posts....and having them be a bit loose...like you commented on.
I know having photos of these areas with the part NOT in place and then one with it installed will GREATLY help.
I know I PREFER that when I 'sleeve' a part of the frame or any steel component that is a basically a square box tube. I want the sleeve to fit in rather tight. Not so tight that I have to beat it to death to get it in and out...but tight enough so my areas where my welds are plug hole welds are going to be have the two pieces of metal touching.... IF at all possible.
I know I could go in with a turnbuckle...that would have two bolts coming off each end and I could turn these bolts and extend out its length...thus pushing the steel to where I need it. Or just have one of the long hex nuts and one bolt that I can turn the hex nut would be against the other side when I am turning it.
OR...you can add something to the ends of this type of tool that could allow you to spread it out also.
If the part you are installing just will not work for you. That is when I would slit the steel with a cut-off wheel right at the 90 degree bend of the part and then re-weld it back a bit wider so it would fit tighter.
I really wish I had some donor pillar ends to use. I've called around but no luck
you can have my pieces if you think they will help , but without seeing what your cleaned up areas look like I would say they would just create more work .
then of course the shipping cost may make it a bit crazy to do
Okay, so I have everything cleaned up. Still need to blast everything again but I'm down to good metal. As you can see there was a lot to cut out. Interestingly, the center channel is in good shape except for the #3 mounts...there gone. But no holes or deep rust anywhere through the rest of the channel. I'm also including some pictures of some cardboard mock-ups. My plan is to cut out the fill pieces get those tacked in then weld a lap plate over the outside. OR I could just weld plates on similar to how everything is mocked up and leave it at that... I think it should come out pretty good.
HoneyNut Cheerios Template Making Kit
Hopefully this gives you an idea of what I've got going on and my thoughts moving forward. The insert does have about 3/32" on either side but we'll see once the repairs are made and the center insert is put in. I should also say that everything is supported measured and marked so I know if it's sagging or anything. This area of the car body seems to be pretty tough, but I didn't want to take any chances so what you can't see is all the supports! Safety!
Wow you have been busy , looking good. looks like the plate that comes in from behind the seats has rusted away as well , have you got pieces to weld that back onto pillar, it original was a curved piece and was spot welded to the pillar.
I would only weld one repair piece per wall , no need to but weld an exact shape piece in then weld a larger size one over the top. What ever technique is easier fo r you , but have you been practising butt welds on some scrap ? And make syre you can actually get the tip into the places you need it to go.Stick or mig ?
Wait for Dub to give his thoughts on this as well.
I don't have a curved piece where the back plate is. I'm just going to make one. It seems to be in pretty good shape too except for that particular spot. I'm using a MIG welder. I have a fluxcore too, but that things a mess on thin stuff. The MIG I have does pretty good. I've been practicing a bit - not as much as I'd like as I don't have a lot of scrap steel around. If I butt weld I'd just take the slow stitch approach making sure it cools - no rush so no blow thru.
OK...NOW...I can honestly say that you need to call me ( if you care to do so)....the only reason why is so I do not have to type for a long time.
IF the metal you are going to patch the holes up with is the same gauge or a bit thicker...I prefer to...at all costs...cut out the area that will be filled in with the plate and NOT have it look like the outline of the state of Texas...but rather Colorado...IF at all possible. EVEN if I have to cut GOOD steel. It can make the time go faster....and keep in mind...I have to worry about time. So...this may not be concern for you.
I know I would make the plates I need to fix this #3 mount without thinking twice about it. And that is because I have done just that...and it looked just like yours.....assuming the underside of the rocker channel heading towards the #2 mount is good.
01-04-2017, 04:22 AM
