Metalhead140

Sounds awesome!

SuperBuickGuy

and aluminum heads are ordered .... lots of spend ahead, but that's a big one down

Metalhead140

What heads are you going for?

SuperBuickGuy

2.25/1.88 rectangle-port heads. I'm buying from a machine shop (name escapes me) who buys bare heads, then machine them here in the US.... costs a bit more, but should be a better product. First time I'll have used them - and since I'm not a paid spokesperson, truth will come... as follows right now:

Got my OBX side pipes friday


they look really nice
except for the dent - that apparently they put there for clearance .... if you squint just right at their pictures, you can see the bludgeoned part on fleabay.


I'm not leaving it like that - it offends me on several levels, but they are 304 stainless, 16 ga, and have mufflers inside for $804 delivered... I couldn't build what I bought for the price (and they look well designed) and seem to have equal length tubes (which the Hookers do not have).

So the tl;dr is overall I like the pipes but am disappointed by the dent.... but not enough to ratchet up the complaint.

SuperBuickGuy

they are here, and my comments are below.



$900 delivered. For the price, they're amazing. They need a couple hours each of porting, polishing, and edge-dulling.... but heavens.... I may get them shaved too, 9.5:1 is a bit low for my goals.

RBrid

Nice! I'll stop by soon to check out all the new goodies. What's your compression goal given the 92 octane gas we find around here?

SuperBuickGuy

If I leave it as is, 9.5:1

Metalhead140

A stroker crank would bring up the compression nicely...

SuperBuickGuy

Somewhere I have saved the torque/hp curves of a 427 and a 496 - you don't need torque when you've added lightness
The curve on this motor goes from 300 hp at 3500 to 700 hp at 6500 - the grin factor of that curve... nope, not going to stroke it, don't need to stroke when you've got the real thing

SuperBuickGuy

To update the decision-making process. Cost:
I have an LS motor, which would be great for this car - it's a 6.0 from a Denali. As with all things, it cost so I'll put that cost as part of this.

LS motor
1) Motor cost 2k
2) mounts, oil pan, bracket for only alternator 1,200
3) Cam $400
4) re-ring (it does have 190k on it), $500, bolts $200
5) headers - no one makes side pipes, yet, but I'd adapt OBX pipes so $800
6) adapters for LS motor exhaust, $100
7) flywheel $300 (for LS to ST-10 trans)
8) intake (either EFI or Carb the end number is about the same) $1200
9) misc $500

net hp 450
$7200
BBC 427
1) motor cost 1200
2) mounts, oil pan, alternator bracket. All interchanges except the alternator bracket $100
3) heads, rings, bearings, bolts $1500
4) cam $800
5) OBX stainless sidepipes $800
6) adapters zero
7) flywheel, zero, same as SBC that came out but to be fair 150
8) intake, carb, distributor (200, 400, 200) $800
9) misc $500

Net hp 700
$5850

SBC
1) motor cost $10,500 - for a 427 ci SBC
yeah... not going further

The strength of the motors is kind of a thing as well. By my own experience, at this hp level, the LS and the BBC are equal, even weight is within 50 lbs of each other.

Build the motor you need - that's kind of my point of reciting this. If you need north of 750 hp, you'd be a money-spending fool to do anything but LS (and I am one of those fools because of a Buick motor that's up soon to be assembled - no condemnation, just facts). I like the hp of a big-bore, short stroke motor (it's what I think Ford got right with the 302 - too bad the motor has a zip-strip up the cam bore). That said, you would not want to drive this in traffic, I think it's hp at idle is less then 100 hp (not kidding), it doesn't make 200 hp until almost 3000 rpm.... of course, at 3500 it makes 300 hp and at 6500 it makes 700 hp. But it will be a pain to drive (and that's fine, I know what I want and I frankly love it)... also, in its defense it makes nearly 400 lb torque at 2000 but be sure, it'll be a dog at anything less then 3000 rpm.

Metalhead140

Sounds like a killer engine. Not going to make that sort of power with ~9:1 compression though surely...? The 388 stroker small block in my Vette has 11.1:1 compression, runs great on pump gas, keeps pulling up to 7,000. Ford 302s are great - but I certainly wouldn't trade my 351c stroked to 393 for one (though admittedly it's in a heavy vehicle). I like making power with revs too, but seems to me that decent quality stroker assemblies don't have any problem doing the revs as well? Increase the head/cam, and make more power everywhere?

Anyway, it sounds like a killer engine build, I'm looking forward to it!

SuperBuickGuy

you are absolutely correct - and see the reason why I put a piston in to get a deck height (along with check bearing clearances)... I'm shaving the head and using thinner head gaskets to bring the compression up to 10.86:1. If my calculations are correct, when this thing hits 88 mph you'll see some stuff.... errr... wrong car, I'm taking .0030 off. plus gaining another .0012 with the thinner head gasket.

Metalhead140

Sounds good. What will your squish be? Sounds like you might be getting very close? Didn't you say you're at 0 deck height? If you take .030 off and run a .027 gasket you'll have the pistons hitting the head, what am I missing?

SuperBuickGuy

the head gasket. at zero the piston is still .027 away from the head


In other news.
these are what stopped me (and a ball bearing that is MIA).... I forgot to ask the PO how he did this to the snap rings, though probably a good thing I didn't, they look like there was a war.

a brief modification of a box to make removal of parts easier


for having three teeth floating around inside, it looks really good inside (and the synchros are in great shape

and yeah, missing teeth

have the gear, no idea what I did with my bearing splitter... ah well, I need more snap rings too


bright side is I found the motor mounts that I was looking for - of course, the person who needed them got mounts a couple weeks ago. Par would be finding the bearing splitter 2 weeks after I buy another.

Metalhead140

What I'm missing is that you're taking the .030 off the head, not the block! Don't mind me, I'm just a bit slow! I read it more than once too...

Somebody did a good job to shear off those teeth!

SuperBuickGuy

no worries

the PO had a 406, blown SBC in here - so it had the beans to do this.

SuperBuickGuy

got the intake

and checked the bearing clearance, 30 under bearings it was.
and got the cometic .027 gaskets

baby steps
​

SuperBuickGuy

I love tools that are older then me but work well for their purpose... 1950 Cornwell


pulled the heads apart so I can take them down to be decked.. they don't look bad - honestly, I'd recommend them so far.... as you'll see why through these pictures


the shop didn't touch the heads other then the machine work to put the valves in and their seats... all driver-quality stuff too. I'm impressed with the work - they seem to have taken the "we'll spend a couple extra dollars for the stuff we have to machine, but stuff like valve springs, retainers, and clips we'll cheap out" which is excellent because those are a lot cheaper to redo then someone setting a seat in crooked or whatever.
nice, undercut stainless valves - note the 3 angle valve job. Not unobtainium, not necessarily race, but a dang good start

same with the intake



they do need porting and I suppose a 5 angle cut on the valves (not going to). The ports need blending and (of course) port matching the intake... but here's why I like these - all stuff you can do at home without anything more then patience and a good dust mask...

SuperBuickGuy

comparison to before
​

SuperBuickGuy

a bit was accomplished on the motor
first step was put the dowels back in the block

and then set the gaskets on

a nice coating of dykem

then pull the crank

and set the heads on to mark them

and to verify clearance of the valves
not a lot but good enough

hmmm....I'm not sure, but I think these might cause a leak

waiting on gaskets so I can mark then blend the intake and do the porting

​