Deluxe Door Panel Restoration and Re-skin - Never Replace What You Can Restore!
04-03-2017, 06:23 AM
#21
Melting Slicks
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Tooch -- Thanks! The work will continue yet again today. I look forward to seeing your completed console overlay too!!
7T1 -- Thanks for the well wishes! You have sound advice and I appreciate the input from a "been there-done that" guy.
The plan is to start at the most difficult point (the armrest) and work my way out a section at a time. I will NOT put glue in the trim slots of the armrest for the same reason you mentioned not gluing the entire panel at once. Only the high flats will get glue here. This way I can ensure a clean drop of the panel into the complex contours. Plus, the trim and lock bezel will hold these areas tight after they're reinstalled.
I have done some interior recovering work in the past (Vinyl T-Top liners, foam backed cloth head liners, etc...) so I do have some experience with this. The adhesive will work fine on the foam. Principal-wise, it's really no different than installing a foam backed cloth headliner...only here the materials are flip-flopped.
I did not want to leave the original skins on because of some cracks in the original vinyl with curled edges, as well as the defects that needed to be repaired. I did not want to chance anything showing through, and those area were prime candidates for that.
I don't think GM used any adhesive on the originals. I'm willing to bet that the vinyl was super heated and vacuum installed over the foam backing, much like the process that Corvette America uses to install skins on theirs backs. These skins actually removed quite easily under heat, and I found no traces of any adhesive on either the foam or the inside of the old skins.
540 -- Do you mean the total time including the repairs I'm having to make, or just the re-skin process itself (including old skin removal)? The strip down for both panels was 3 hours.
7T1 -- Thanks for the well wishes! You have sound advice and I appreciate the input from a "been there-done that" guy.
The plan is to start at the most difficult point (the armrest) and work my way out a section at a time. I will NOT put glue in the trim slots of the armrest for the same reason you mentioned not gluing the entire panel at once. Only the high flats will get glue here. This way I can ensure a clean drop of the panel into the complex contours. Plus, the trim and lock bezel will hold these areas tight after they're reinstalled.
I have done some interior recovering work in the past (Vinyl T-Top liners, foam backed cloth head liners, etc...) so I do have some experience with this. The adhesive will work fine on the foam. Principal-wise, it's really no different than installing a foam backed cloth headliner...only here the materials are flip-flopped.
I did not want to leave the original skins on because of some cracks in the original vinyl with curled edges, as well as the defects that needed to be repaired. I did not want to chance anything showing through, and those area were prime candidates for that.
I don't think GM used any adhesive on the originals. I'm willing to bet that the vinyl was super heated and vacuum installed over the foam backing, much like the process that Corvette America uses to install skins on theirs backs. These skins actually removed quite easily under heat, and I found no traces of any adhesive on either the foam or the inside of the old skins.
540 -- Do you mean the total time including the repairs I'm having to make, or just the re-skin process itself (including old skin removal)? The strip down for both panels was 3 hours.
04-03-2017, 07:50 AM
#23
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Hi W,
You continue to post some informative photos.
Your approach to the repairs, on both side of the panel, is pretty interesting.
Nice Work!
Regards,
Alan
You continue to post some informative photos.
Your approach to the repairs, on both side of the panel, is pretty interesting.
Nice Work!
Regards,
Alan
04-03-2017, 08:31 AM
#24
Melting Slicks
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69ttop and Alan, thank you for the kind words. After I get coffee'd up I'll be heading back out to the garage. I'm hoping to get the passenger side covered today, and the driver side tomorrow. I still have a couple of small things to take care of on the LH panel before it's ready.
More to come....
More to come....
04-03-2017, 12:25 PM
#25
Panels
Awesome work and very very informative. My thoughts would have also been to start in the middle and work out. Good to know about the adhesive. So happens the middle is the hardest. I noticed on my 69 panels that the upper weaved section is actually separate from the panel.
Great job, I love doing as much as I can myself and learning.
Thanks for taking the time.
RVZIO
Great job, I love doing as much as I can myself and learning.
Thanks for taking the time.
RVZIO
04-03-2017, 03:03 PM
#26
Melting Slicks
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RVZIO -- Thank you for those kind words, and honestly, it's truly my pleasure doing this, really! If this info helps ONE person, I feel it was worth it.
Ah yes, the '69 panels with the added comfortweave were the deluxe panels for 1969. Another one of those one year only deals!
Update to follow next...
Ah yes, the '69 panels with the added comfortweave were the deluxe panels for 1969. Another one of those one year only deals!
Update to follow next...
04-03-2017, 03:44 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
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More Progress....
Well, I didn't make as much progress today as I initially thought I might, but I'm in no rush and today's work was important, so it's all good.
First order of today's business was to replace the missing tab on the top of the LH panel.
The original piece was cardboard, so I took 2 pieces of cardboard and laminated them together for thickness and added strength.
I still had a small section of the original tab. There was enough left that when reattached to the panel, I could see the outline of what once was. I know it looks rough, but I've been able to do more with less, and I was happy to have this scrappy little piece!
I glued the newly made tab to the bottom of the scrappy tab, fiberglassed the inside of the tab to the upper door panel, then covered the new tab with a layer of auto-grade vinyl for added strength. Here was the result:
This worked out as good as I'd hoped it would, but the real test would be the "test fit" in the new skin. As you can see in the next pic, all of the repaired areas fit in the skin perfectly.
The last thing I needed to do on both panels was to repair the torn and missing areas that the lower panel mounting clips attach to. I repaired and test fitted the clips on both panels.
NOW I am at the point where I'm ready to install the new door skins...not today though. I'll save that for tomorrow. I want to give all of the new glass-work time to cure overnight.
More to come.....
First order of today's business was to replace the missing tab on the top of the LH panel.
The original piece was cardboard, so I took 2 pieces of cardboard and laminated them together for thickness and added strength.
I still had a small section of the original tab. There was enough left that when reattached to the panel, I could see the outline of what once was. I know it looks rough, but I've been able to do more with less, and I was happy to have this scrappy little piece!
I glued the newly made tab to the bottom of the scrappy tab, fiberglassed the inside of the tab to the upper door panel, then covered the new tab with a layer of auto-grade vinyl for added strength. Here was the result:
This worked out as good as I'd hoped it would, but the real test would be the "test fit" in the new skin. As you can see in the next pic, all of the repaired areas fit in the skin perfectly.
The last thing I needed to do on both panels was to repair the torn and missing areas that the lower panel mounting clips attach to. I repaired and test fitted the clips on both panels.
NOW I am at the point where I'm ready to install the new door skins...not today though. I'll save that for tomorrow. I want to give all of the new glass-work time to cure overnight.
More to come.....
04-03-2017, 04:17 PM
#28
Team Owner
Very nice work on the 'core' repairs...much better than what I did with mine. My original panels didn't have the extensive damage that yours did; but there was some cracking, etc. I trimmed all the protruding stuff down to the surface, then filled any cracks/gaps with polyester filler and blended with the original skin. Thus, I didn't have any 'damaged' surfaces to show thru the new skin. Worked pretty well.
I suspect that you are correct...that GM just heat/vacuum formed the skin onto the foam core. Also glad that you have experience with gluing to that foam core successfully. Your finished product should end up looking very good.
Last tip: Since your foam core is original and already has the holes made by the trim prongs, you should be able to use a large needle or sharpened ice pick to poke thru the new skin from the backside. That will provide the correct locations for your existing trim to reset those to the panel. For the lock plate, I ground off the formed rivet heads on the backside to remove from the panel, then drilled into the posts about 1/4". When I installed that plate on the panel again, I used JB Weld 2-part [tube] epoxy to fill those newly drilled holes and put a 'head' on top to hold the plate in place. Worked well...nothing ever came loose (10 years now). You could also tap those newly drilled holes in the posts for screws, if you want better retention--but I think that's overkill.
Keep the updates and photos coming!
I suspect that you are correct...that GM just heat/vacuum formed the skin onto the foam core. Also glad that you have experience with gluing to that foam core successfully. Your finished product should end up looking very good.
Last tip: Since your foam core is original and already has the holes made by the trim prongs, you should be able to use a large needle or sharpened ice pick to poke thru the new skin from the backside. That will provide the correct locations for your existing trim to reset those to the panel. For the lock plate, I ground off the formed rivet heads on the backside to remove from the panel, then drilled into the posts about 1/4". When I installed that plate on the panel again, I used JB Weld 2-part [tube] epoxy to fill those newly drilled holes and put a 'head' on top to hold the plate in place. Worked well...nothing ever came loose (10 years now). You could also tap those newly drilled holes in the posts for screws, if you want better retention--but I think that's overkill.
Keep the updates and photos coming!
04-04-2017, 06:34 AM
#29
Melting Slicks
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7T1 -- THANK YOU for those tips on the lock plate! I'm glad you brought that up as I was pondering what method to use for retention of the plates on the re-installation of these. It appears that the factory used some type of flash-weld method to melt the stud ends just enough to mushroom the ends of the studs over the washers used as backing plates.
You can see the electrodes pin-point indentation in the middle of the stud, and if you look closely you can also see the tiny waves from the flow of molten pot metal. GREAT for initial install, but it definitely does us no favors for removal and reinstall.
I actually thought about doing the drill and tap method, but I really like your JB Weld method better...and knowing you have done this with a 10 year success record seals the deal for me. Problem solved, thank you!
If you think of any more tips, please don't hesitate to share them. That's what makes this forum so great, our exchange of ideas for the common good of our hobby and passion for these cars.
Time for coffee, then back out to the garage. Today is set to be an exciting day...the actual re-skin begins!
You can see the electrodes pin-point indentation in the middle of the stud, and if you look closely you can also see the tiny waves from the flow of molten pot metal. GREAT for initial install, but it definitely does us no favors for removal and reinstall.
I actually thought about doing the drill and tap method, but I really like your JB Weld method better...and knowing you have done this with a 10 year success record seals the deal for me. Problem solved, thank you!
If you think of any more tips, please don't hesitate to share them. That's what makes this forum so great, our exchange of ideas for the common good of our hobby and passion for these cars.
Time for coffee, then back out to the garage. Today is set to be an exciting day...the actual re-skin begins!
04-04-2017, 02:33 PM
#31
Melting Slicks
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More Progress with Additions!
69Vett -- Thank you! The fun never stops here!
During coffee I had a thought that I decided to run with. Instead of just installing the skin over the bare foam substrate, I wanted a layer of something that would add a little softness to the panel, without disturbing the integrity of the substrate, while still insuring the skin would fit as good if not better than before...so I called my trim shop guy, told him what I wanted to do, and he recommended using trunk liner material. It's thin, it's stretchy to easily get around the complex curves of the armrest, yet would not interfere with the skin installation. So I picked up 2-3/4 yards (enough for both panels) along with a quart of sprayable adhesive that I buy like my moonshine....in a mason jar! The glue sprays out beautifully with an HVLP gun and a 1.4 tip. By the time you set the gun in the stand the material is ready to be attached and bonded.
The following are shots of what I used for the job, and the progress to now. After this update I'm going back out to cover the passenger side...the actual skinning will commence tomorrow!
THE GUN
THE GLUE (Weldwood Landau Vinyl Contact Cement)
THE MATERIAL
THE PROGRESS
I cut slits for the armrest trim and trimmed out the area for the lock bezel then test fitted the panel in the skin, and I am VERY happy with the initial fit. I'm anxious for tomorrow.
During coffee I had a thought that I decided to run with. Instead of just installing the skin over the bare foam substrate, I wanted a layer of something that would add a little softness to the panel, without disturbing the integrity of the substrate, while still insuring the skin would fit as good if not better than before...so I called my trim shop guy, told him what I wanted to do, and he recommended using trunk liner material. It's thin, it's stretchy to easily get around the complex curves of the armrest, yet would not interfere with the skin installation. So I picked up 2-3/4 yards (enough for both panels) along with a quart of sprayable adhesive that I buy like my moonshine....in a mason jar! The glue sprays out beautifully with an HVLP gun and a 1.4 tip. By the time you set the gun in the stand the material is ready to be attached and bonded.
The following are shots of what I used for the job, and the progress to now. After this update I'm going back out to cover the passenger side...the actual skinning will commence tomorrow!
THE GUN
THE GLUE (Weldwood Landau Vinyl Contact Cement)
THE MATERIAL
THE PROGRESS
I cut slits for the armrest trim and trimmed out the area for the lock bezel then test fitted the panel in the skin, and I am VERY happy with the initial fit. I'm anxious for tomorrow.
04-04-2017, 03:13 PM
#32
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Hi W,
That seems like a good idea for some installations.
I would have liked to have seen the results of the vinyl applied right over the panel.
Still interested in your procedure!!!
Regards,
Alan
That seems like a good idea for some installations.
I would have liked to have seen the results of the vinyl applied right over the panel.
Still interested in your procedure!!!
Regards,
Alan
04-05-2017, 06:31 AM
#33
Drifting
very interesting thread and you must have great patience to do a restoration like this.the po saved me the trouble by replacing the deluxe panels but as you feared they never sat right tight to the door.with the assistance of forum members and some nifty tricks i got them to fit better but i like the idea of preserving what you can.i'm rooting for ya!
04-05-2017, 07:59 PM
#34
Melting Slicks
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Thanks Bill, I can use all the "rooters" I can get right now! 
Good news....FIRST ONE IS DONE!!!!
I completed skinning my "problem child" LH panel this afternoon. Slow and steady wins the race with this job. I followed the plan I laid out earlier in this thread...starting at the armrest and working my way out a little at a time. I would have liked to have included more "along the way" pics, but when you start working with contact adhesive you don't have time to take pictures. The Weldwood Landau sparayable adhesive is ready for by the time you put your gun back in the hanger and turn back to your work. Don't shoot it unless you are READY NOW!
My steps were simple and easy to follow.
STEP ONE: Lay out and clean the inside of the skin with your favorite wax and grease remover. I use Finish 1.
STEP TWO: Elevate the door panel from your work table. The skin is much deeper than the panel and will interfere with your work if you try installing it on a flat surface
STEP THREE: Prepare the panel and skin for the first application of glue. Here I put rolled up paper towels in the grooves of the armrest trim to keep glue from getting in the slot. This is important because glue in the slot will cause the panel to adhere before you are able to fit the contours of the armrest in the "home" position.
STEP FOUR: The fun starts. Remove paper towels from step three and apply adhesive. Now the real fun begins. Once the adhesive is applied, carefully set the skin over the top of the door panel. GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!!! Don't wait until the glue is applied to try doing this. Practice on dry runs as many times as you have to to be confident you have the placement perfect. It's not hard, but this first step IS critical to get right.
STEP FIVE: Roll back the skin to the area you just glued in place, glue a new section, and lay the skin out smoothly. Again, if you're unsure, practice on dry runs before you spray. Also, don't be afraid to use your heat gun. The vinyl is thick and will not always roll smoothly for you cold, but once heated it will lay out exactly as you would like it to.
Take your time, Don't be in any kind of hurry. If you rush, you are apt to make a big mistake. Practice. Practice. Practice. This is the best advice I can give anyone interested in taking this job on.
Here are some photos of my freshly skinned panel. As you can see I have already punched the holes for the woodgrain insert (restored earlier in the thread) and the carpet insert trim for the bottom. I will be installing the new window sweep, and all trim tomorrow.
Pics of the completely finished panel to follow....
Good news....FIRST ONE IS DONE!!!!
I completed skinning my "problem child" LH panel this afternoon. Slow and steady wins the race with this job. I followed the plan I laid out earlier in this thread...starting at the armrest and working my way out a little at a time. I would have liked to have included more "along the way" pics, but when you start working with contact adhesive you don't have time to take pictures. The Weldwood Landau sparayable adhesive is ready for by the time you put your gun back in the hanger and turn back to your work. Don't shoot it unless you are READY NOW!
My steps were simple and easy to follow.
STEP ONE: Lay out and clean the inside of the skin with your favorite wax and grease remover. I use Finish 1.
STEP TWO: Elevate the door panel from your work table. The skin is much deeper than the panel and will interfere with your work if you try installing it on a flat surface
STEP THREE: Prepare the panel and skin for the first application of glue. Here I put rolled up paper towels in the grooves of the armrest trim to keep glue from getting in the slot. This is important because glue in the slot will cause the panel to adhere before you are able to fit the contours of the armrest in the "home" position.
STEP FOUR: The fun starts. Remove paper towels from step three and apply adhesive. Now the real fun begins. Once the adhesive is applied, carefully set the skin over the top of the door panel. GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!!! Don't wait until the glue is applied to try doing this. Practice on dry runs as many times as you have to to be confident you have the placement perfect. It's not hard, but this first step IS critical to get right.
STEP FIVE: Roll back the skin to the area you just glued in place, glue a new section, and lay the skin out smoothly. Again, if you're unsure, practice on dry runs before you spray. Also, don't be afraid to use your heat gun. The vinyl is thick and will not always roll smoothly for you cold, but once heated it will lay out exactly as you would like it to.
Take your time, Don't be in any kind of hurry. If you rush, you are apt to make a big mistake. Practice. Practice. Practice. This is the best advice I can give anyone interested in taking this job on.
Here are some photos of my freshly skinned panel. As you can see I have already punched the holes for the woodgrain insert (restored earlier in the thread) and the carpet insert trim for the bottom. I will be installing the new window sweep, and all trim tomorrow.
Pics of the completely finished panel to follow....
04-05-2017, 08:22 PM
#35
Melting Slicks
WOW, that is Beautiful! Great Work
04-05-2017, 08:24 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
What an awesome job. Thank you for keeping us updated with your progress. Are you a member of the NCRS? The reason I ask is this sure would be a great Technical Article to submit for publication in the "Restorer Magazine". You could also try to get this published in Vette Magazine. They usually publish more Tech articles more so than "Corvette Magazine". Just a suggestion my friend!
Tooch
Last edited by Tooch1; 04-05-2017 at 08:29 PM.
04-06-2017, 04:37 AM
#37
Team Owner
Excellent work! Yours came out somewhat better than mine...smoother result. Looks almost as good as the original panels.
04-06-2017, 06:12 AM
#38
panels
What a great tutorial on how to re skin an original door panel. I am all for using the original panels and will keep this thread close by. I will definitely be doing this when I get to that stage. FANTASTIC! especially for members who enjoy challenges.
RVZIO
RVZIO
04-06-2017, 06:31 AM
#39
Melting Slicks
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rosslato-- Thank you for the compliment and kind words!
Tooch-- I was glad to share my experience with this project on the forum. The forum has helped me SO MUCH over the years with great information, I really wanted to give back on this one. As for the NCRS, no, I am not a member over there, but I will sure look into it. I am happy to help out anyone interested in information like this. Wow...this as published material in a magazine? I never thought of any of the things that I've done being print worthy...that is a huge compliment and I am truly flattered by your thoughts, THANK YOU!
7T1-- Thank you for the compliment and kind words! I was wanting to hear what you said about the end result of this one, having the experience you do having already tackled this job. As I'm sure you know, the first one is always the "trail blazer" if you will, teaching us the things we would have liked to have known going in. I expect the second panel will go even smoother for me, as I'm sure #2 did for you as well.
rvzio-- Thank you for your compliment and kind words! I will be continuing this project on the second panel shortly. If there is any information I can think of to add, I certainly will. I am also happy to answer any questions that you or anyone else might have regarding this project that you feel I did not cover, or cover in enough detail. When you do this, please don't hesitate to bring this thread back to life...I'm not going anywhere any time soon...I hope!
More to come....!
Tooch-- I was glad to share my experience with this project on the forum. The forum has helped me SO MUCH over the years with great information, I really wanted to give back on this one. As for the NCRS, no, I am not a member over there, but I will sure look into it. I am happy to help out anyone interested in information like this. Wow...this as published material in a magazine? I never thought of any of the things that I've done being print worthy...that is a huge compliment and I am truly flattered by your thoughts, THANK YOU!
7T1-- Thank you for the compliment and kind words! I was wanting to hear what you said about the end result of this one, having the experience you do having already tackled this job. As I'm sure you know, the first one is always the "trail blazer" if you will, teaching us the things we would have liked to have known going in. I expect the second panel will go even smoother for me, as I'm sure #2 did for you as well.
rvzio-- Thank you for your compliment and kind words! I will be continuing this project on the second panel shortly. If there is any information I can think of to add, I certainly will. I am also happy to answer any questions that you or anyone else might have regarding this project that you feel I did not cover, or cover in enough detail. When you do this, please don't hesitate to bring this thread back to life...I'm not going anywhere any time soon...I hope!
More to come....!
Last edited by Red86Z51; 04-06-2017 at 06:31 AM.
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