new guy here, need help! how to modify a 75 frame to fit a 74?
#1
new guy here, need help! how to modify a 75 frame to fit a 74?
So I've recently gotten myself into the c3 corvette world and started a project (or 2 to be exact) I'm not necessarily in over my head but probably will be soon enough. I guess ill explain a bit about myself and what is going on here as well as how I got myself into this. First I'm Canadian, from Toronto Canada I've been going through a tough divorce for a few years (yeah, 2.5 to be exact) which has really (obviously) messed with my life considerably. I spent a few years working on my (soon to be sold off) 1968 mustang fastback project that I had modified to fit a 2011 aluminum block Shelby gt500 engine with all kinds of other fancy upgrades. long story short I cant keep myself in limbo trying to save the car, so I've given up and decided to sell it. At the same time I decided to buy another 68 mustang shell ("well why are you here then?" you ask?) and simultaneously I purchased a 70 and 74 c3 (not as expensive as everyone is thinking here, mostly bartered these purchases for the mountainous collection of stuff id gathered recently).
I've been a classic car lover for most of my life and am not really hung up on this vs that. c3's have been my favorite vette as long as I've had a love for vettes and the 67 mustangs have been my favorite iconic car for as long as I can remember, along with 69 Camaro's, Ferrari dino's, testarossa's, Nissan 300zx's, classic ford and gm trucks, Shelby's and the list goes on. so I apologize if some here are offended that I keep some mustangs and vettes together in the same garage The biggest reason I got into the idea of working on cars was to teach my boys mechanics and to love working with their hands while getting their hands dirty. I learned about playing with tools by playing with tools, I started when I was really young and messed up boat loads of my dads stuff in the process, now I'm hoping to continue that with my 2 boys and get them started on their own paths in life. my kids are 6 and 8 and have recently shown interest in tools (actually they helped me build my c3 body frame built on alan71's designs that I found somewhere on this forum). I hope that this community is the right one to help me out with my goal.
while I'm VERY versed in 67-68 mustangs, I am not so familiar with gm's and their architecture. I've done a lot of reading and searching and understand a fair amount of stuff about the c3 (and vehicles in general) and I did realize that the c3 frame is really 4 variants based on collision legislation that was created and consequently applied to all vehicles that mandated some changes to the frame over the years. originally I made a deal with someone to pick up a 74 coupe that was missing its frame, but otherwise relatively complete. then I realized that I really preferred the chrome bumper cars to the later integrated bumper ones and made a deal with a different person to trade for a 70 because I'm a person who doesn't back out of a deal I now own 2 c3's (although I haven't yet picked up either one but will be over the next couple weeks). The 70 is drivable as it sits, so I don't need to do much to it, however I will be taking it apart and restoring it while upgrading its suspension and its engine before putting it back together. before I can do that however I need to assemble the 74, get it painted and running then determining what I'm going to do with it once its done. currently I'm planning on rebuilding the 350 that comes with the 74, taking the suspension off of the 70, cleaning it up and using that stuff to complete the 74, redoing the interior with the (relatively good) one from the 70 then replacing all the parts I gutted from the 70 with new ones (including a side pipe conversion) so that the 70 is my custom built dream car and the 74 is either kept or sold off to fund all the upgrades on the 70.
so... this finally brings me to my actual problem and the reason posted in the title of the post. I found a 75 frame that I can afford (local to me) that has some rusting through on the rear right side frame rail near the rear (bumper?) cross member. I can easily repair the rust, blast the frame and paint it, but what I don't know is can this frame actually be converted to work? what of the frame needs to be changed in order to get it to be right? I've searched everywhere and cannot find solid information on what id have to do (if its even plausible) to use this frame to start my build on the 74. I'm good with welding, but I don't want to get too crazy with the welding because I've lost all my really good equipment. I've read in places that the last 14" of frame needs to be removed and replaced, I read somewhere that just the last cross member and some gussets need to be changed so I'm not very clear on what needs to be done or if its worth my while even picking up the 75 frame and modifying it or trying my luck locating an affordable 74 frame (I have found a couple but I cant afford the cost people are asking) plus dealing with the added complication that the Canadian dollar sucks right now and bringing it up from the states will be a bit nightmareish with all the other things going on in my life right now, plus the biggest issue is that I'm totally broke but am trying to go ahead with this anyway mainly because I can handle most of the work myself and the 70 has some really good parts on it that I can use to finish the 74.
hopefully someone here knows the answer and is willing to help out!
Thanks for listening (reading) my rant
Sunny
I've been a classic car lover for most of my life and am not really hung up on this vs that. c3's have been my favorite vette as long as I've had a love for vettes and the 67 mustangs have been my favorite iconic car for as long as I can remember, along with 69 Camaro's, Ferrari dino's, testarossa's, Nissan 300zx's, classic ford and gm trucks, Shelby's and the list goes on. so I apologize if some here are offended that I keep some mustangs and vettes together in the same garage The biggest reason I got into the idea of working on cars was to teach my boys mechanics and to love working with their hands while getting their hands dirty. I learned about playing with tools by playing with tools, I started when I was really young and messed up boat loads of my dads stuff in the process, now I'm hoping to continue that with my 2 boys and get them started on their own paths in life. my kids are 6 and 8 and have recently shown interest in tools (actually they helped me build my c3 body frame built on alan71's designs that I found somewhere on this forum). I hope that this community is the right one to help me out with my goal.
while I'm VERY versed in 67-68 mustangs, I am not so familiar with gm's and their architecture. I've done a lot of reading and searching and understand a fair amount of stuff about the c3 (and vehicles in general) and I did realize that the c3 frame is really 4 variants based on collision legislation that was created and consequently applied to all vehicles that mandated some changes to the frame over the years. originally I made a deal with someone to pick up a 74 coupe that was missing its frame, but otherwise relatively complete. then I realized that I really preferred the chrome bumper cars to the later integrated bumper ones and made a deal with a different person to trade for a 70 because I'm a person who doesn't back out of a deal I now own 2 c3's (although I haven't yet picked up either one but will be over the next couple weeks). The 70 is drivable as it sits, so I don't need to do much to it, however I will be taking it apart and restoring it while upgrading its suspension and its engine before putting it back together. before I can do that however I need to assemble the 74, get it painted and running then determining what I'm going to do with it once its done. currently I'm planning on rebuilding the 350 that comes with the 74, taking the suspension off of the 70, cleaning it up and using that stuff to complete the 74, redoing the interior with the (relatively good) one from the 70 then replacing all the parts I gutted from the 70 with new ones (including a side pipe conversion) so that the 70 is my custom built dream car and the 74 is either kept or sold off to fund all the upgrades on the 70.
so... this finally brings me to my actual problem and the reason posted in the title of the post. I found a 75 frame that I can afford (local to me) that has some rusting through on the rear right side frame rail near the rear (bumper?) cross member. I can easily repair the rust, blast the frame and paint it, but what I don't know is can this frame actually be converted to work? what of the frame needs to be changed in order to get it to be right? I've searched everywhere and cannot find solid information on what id have to do (if its even plausible) to use this frame to start my build on the 74. I'm good with welding, but I don't want to get too crazy with the welding because I've lost all my really good equipment. I've read in places that the last 14" of frame needs to be removed and replaced, I read somewhere that just the last cross member and some gussets need to be changed so I'm not very clear on what needs to be done or if its worth my while even picking up the 75 frame and modifying it or trying my luck locating an affordable 74 frame (I have found a couple but I cant afford the cost people are asking) plus dealing with the added complication that the Canadian dollar sucks right now and bringing it up from the states will be a bit nightmareish with all the other things going on in my life right now, plus the biggest issue is that I'm totally broke but am trying to go ahead with this anyway mainly because I can handle most of the work myself and the 70 has some really good parts on it that I can use to finish the 74.
hopefully someone here knows the answer and is willing to help out!
Thanks for listening (reading) my rant
Sunny
#2
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Hi Sunny,
I think everything that doesn't have anything to do with the 70 needs to be sold off so your EFFORTS and RESOURCES can be applied to the car you ultimately want to end up with.
Your idea of gutting the 70 to build the 74 isn't a sound one!
Regards,
Alan
I think everything that doesn't have anything to do with the 70 needs to be sold off so your EFFORTS and RESOURCES can be applied to the car you ultimately want to end up with.
Your idea of gutting the 70 to build the 74 isn't a sound one!
Regards,
Alan
#3
Thanks Alan, but I have the time as I intended these projects to take a few years to complete and I'm only 36 so I theoretically have many years to allocate to them. The further complication is my better half wants the 74, at least for a short while anyway. Plus I wanted to use the 74 to teach my boys on, not the 70. While your logic is sound and respected it doesn't factor all the variables in this situation. But do you know about the modifying of the 75 frame?
Sunny
Sunny
#4
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Hi Sunny,
Regardless of how much time you have, what your wife wants, or what you want to teach your sons, it's unwise to gut a 70 to use for a 74 when your plan is to build the 70.
Regards,
Alan
Here's a link about frame specs.
http://www.bairs.com/page291.asp
Regardless of how much time you have, what your wife wants, or what you want to teach your sons, it's unwise to gut a 70 to use for a 74 when your plan is to build the 70.
Regards,
Alan
Here's a link about frame specs.
http://www.bairs.com/page291.asp
#5
Thanks alan! that's exactly the information I needed. ive also determined that after getting the appropriate new metal parts its not worth converting the frame. correct me if I'm wrong but I think i'd have to purchase 2 new new kick up assembly's and the rear cross member. with the couple of other parts id need to order id be over 2000 Canadian just to do the conversion, so I think ill pass and keep searching.
now just for the sake of clarity I think ill outline my reason for taking the route that I've outlined.
the 74 is fully loaded but is missing its rolling chassis except for the engine, transmission and rear diff. it has a fairly good black interior (complete)
the 70 is also fully loaded and complete but
has a beige interior (I cant stand beige tbh and it isn't in the best of condition anyway) which I want to switch for black,
the chrome on the 70 is scrap and needs to be replaced
I want to ditch the existing suspension and upgrade it to a front and rear coil over set up (thus leaving me with a full good condition suspension that is useless to me).
I want to convert the car do side pipes, leaving me with the full exhaust without use,
I want to upgrade the stock 350/350 engine to bump the hp around 450 (which is why I'm going the coil overs and upgraded diff route)
ill be painting the car back to the factory red/maroon it was originally (I don't remember which car was red and which was maroon)
so I'm going to have a big pile of parts from my project laying around that I will have to try and piece out individually, as well as the donor car for the black interior which can otherwise be completed using that aforementioned pile of parts and really the only thing I will be short is a chassis to turn that donor car into a functional car. the changes I want to make to the 70 are expensive and I don't really have the funds to start that project for solidly another year. I will never sell the 68 mustang to fund this as both the mustang and the vette are on my list of things I will own before I die. my added benefit is that I can start a project now, teaching my boys as I go, that by next spring I will be able to let my s/o enjoy for the summer before I sell it and use the funds acquired from that transaction to start funding the work on the 70. also the 74 is essentially free as the stuff I traded to get it was parts I have no need for and owned in multiples that were included in the purchase of the 68 mustang. when I picked up the 68 the guy basically gave me everything he had in his garage related to fords, regardless of if they were for the car or not, I ended up with 3 engines (of which I have no need for any because I have a crate engine ill be using in that build) 3 transmissions, 4 interiors, and a bunch of random parts that will be totally useless to me during the build. I only paid for the shell of the mustang, at a decent rate, not too cheap or expensive and got basically everything this guy had collected over the years of his work on all the mustangs hes ever owned (the guy buying his 'cuda got a similar gift too, we showed up at the same time). the guy with the 74 traded me for a engine (289) and one of the factory suspensions that I received from that purchase. the guy with the 70 is trading me for another couple of engines (289 and a 1969 351), a bit of cash and one of the interiors I have for the mustang. at the end of the day I bought a mustang and ended up with 2 corvettes for almost free my experience with cars tells me its way easier to sell a working car than to part one out and take the time involved with that process. at the same time I get to get my hands dirty again (which I'm looking forward to) sooner rather than later while teaching my boys about turning wrenches.
not sure how that effects your opinion but I'm curious to find out
now just for the sake of clarity I think ill outline my reason for taking the route that I've outlined.
the 74 is fully loaded but is missing its rolling chassis except for the engine, transmission and rear diff. it has a fairly good black interior (complete)
the 70 is also fully loaded and complete but
has a beige interior (I cant stand beige tbh and it isn't in the best of condition anyway) which I want to switch for black,
the chrome on the 70 is scrap and needs to be replaced
I want to ditch the existing suspension and upgrade it to a front and rear coil over set up (thus leaving me with a full good condition suspension that is useless to me).
I want to convert the car do side pipes, leaving me with the full exhaust without use,
I want to upgrade the stock 350/350 engine to bump the hp around 450 (which is why I'm going the coil overs and upgraded diff route)
ill be painting the car back to the factory red/maroon it was originally (I don't remember which car was red and which was maroon)
so I'm going to have a big pile of parts from my project laying around that I will have to try and piece out individually, as well as the donor car for the black interior which can otherwise be completed using that aforementioned pile of parts and really the only thing I will be short is a chassis to turn that donor car into a functional car. the changes I want to make to the 70 are expensive and I don't really have the funds to start that project for solidly another year. I will never sell the 68 mustang to fund this as both the mustang and the vette are on my list of things I will own before I die. my added benefit is that I can start a project now, teaching my boys as I go, that by next spring I will be able to let my s/o enjoy for the summer before I sell it and use the funds acquired from that transaction to start funding the work on the 70. also the 74 is essentially free as the stuff I traded to get it was parts I have no need for and owned in multiples that were included in the purchase of the 68 mustang. when I picked up the 68 the guy basically gave me everything he had in his garage related to fords, regardless of if they were for the car or not, I ended up with 3 engines (of which I have no need for any because I have a crate engine ill be using in that build) 3 transmissions, 4 interiors, and a bunch of random parts that will be totally useless to me during the build. I only paid for the shell of the mustang, at a decent rate, not too cheap or expensive and got basically everything this guy had collected over the years of his work on all the mustangs hes ever owned (the guy buying his 'cuda got a similar gift too, we showed up at the same time). the guy with the 74 traded me for a engine (289) and one of the factory suspensions that I received from that purchase. the guy with the 70 is trading me for another couple of engines (289 and a 1969 351), a bit of cash and one of the interiors I have for the mustang. at the end of the day I bought a mustang and ended up with 2 corvettes for almost free my experience with cars tells me its way easier to sell a working car than to part one out and take the time involved with that process. at the same time I get to get my hands dirty again (which I'm looking forward to) sooner rather than later while teaching my boys about turning wrenches.
not sure how that effects your opinion but I'm curious to find out