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Metal shaving under valve cover, is my engine dying.
Hi everyone, I stumbled upon some bad sign and would like to input for you guys.
So I have this engine in my Vette, that has been sitting for a couple of years.
Its a pretty radical built, aggressive cam, flat tappet, 64cc patriot head, 10.5 compression ratio.
I restarted it last week and was running very rough, I'm not expert but it was sounding like a 7 cylinder SBC.
Well I noticed a small leak from the base of the valve cover I went on to replace them and change the gasket.
Was I found in the driver side head was concerning.
Stuck under the head of a head bolt, at the rear near was seems an oil passage, there was some metal shaving, and yes it's sticking to magnet.
After further investigation I realize there was also fine metal shaving a the base of one of the lifter spring.
Needless to say that I'm pretty worried.
The single bad thing that happened to the engine is that the fuel pump membrane had blown and started injection fuel in the oil. The engine ran maybe 5 minutes with fuel in the oil before I changed the oil.
So, what's your take on this?
Thanks in advance.
Very good call. Since I'm an idiot I threw most of it away, but there's still some.
The first piece I found was a rather larger piece which almost had the shape of a small washer/ring clip, only badly chewed up.
Fortunately there is still some I can show you.
Most of the big chucks were found in the oil sitting in 2 and the base of the ring at 1 it was also full of shaving.
Looks like aluminum heads...correct?
Do the springs have steel seats under them protecting the heads?
If not it could be shavings from the head at the base of each spring. Especially with a radical cam.
Good luck but imo....I think only safe bet is a full tear down as metal in the oil system is going to spread everywhere and cost a LOT more in the end.
Do the springs have steel seats under them protecting the heads?
Looks like there is
Originally Posted by bmans vette
If not it could be shavings from the head at the base of each spring. Especially with a radical cam.
Not each spring, only at the base of one
Originally Posted by bmans vette
Good luck but imo....I think only safe bet is a full tear down as metal in the oil system is going to spread everywhere and cost a LOT more in the end.
Wish the best for you...
While checking for those seats, here is was I found stuck again the head bold just of the right of "1" in the previous picture, drowned in a slurry of metal paste.
The more I think the more I see kissing my 350 goodbye. So, after restoring the whole car looks like I will have 100% of the car replaced afterall.
OUCH!
That is a pretty big piece and solid steel looking, not aluminum.
I'd pull all the rocker arms and inspect them and around them. That piece looks like it came off inside the valve covers on top of the heads. Maybe nothing went down the return valleys to the pan where there will be problems.
Good luck.
Just my unprofessional opinion/thought but that big of chunks had to come from the top of the heads somewhere, not from lifters, cam etcetera. I would pull pan to see if any of it made it down there and inspect the heads/spring areas really well. Just my $.02
Just my unprofessional opinion/thought but that big of chunks had to come from the top of the heads somewhere, not from lifters, cam etcetera. I would pull pan to see if any of it made it down there and inspect the heads/spring areas really well. Just my $.02
I think you're right. That stuff couldn't have gotten through the intake screen, oil pump, and oil filter. Pulling the pan, and cleaning up the top end and finding the cause/source of the swarf should be take care of the problem. I'd expect the bottom end to be fine.
Just my unprofessional opinion/thought but that big of chunks had to come from the top of the heads somewhere, not from lifters, cam etcetera. I would pull pan to see if any of it made it down there and inspect the heads/spring areas really well. Just my $.02
Originally Posted by ls777z
My first thought was a valve spring keeper. Start pulling rockers and springs.
And you thought right.
Here's was we got :
On the left we have the rocket at the top of the spring with lots of shaving, on the right its neighbor.
You can see the clogged oil passage at the top of the pushrod receiving insert, also the beaten area around it and the beaten area at the top. Less visually noticeable but very real is the play in the shaft, which explains the beating because the rocket must have been dancing about. The curvature of the piece I've found matches the piece that seems to be missing, like a ring between the outer bearings and the shaft.
So most plausible scenario would be the oiling passage get clogged, stops lubricating the bearing that heats up and and a ring inside it starts grinding and producing metal shaving.
Does this make sense? If so I'm asking you how much time would this have taken in running hours, a couple, tens, hundreds?
The pushed itself seems fine, so is the spring valve assembly.
Another question, it the hole on top of "2" in the picture I posted earlier an oil return? If so, where does it go? Would it be the oil filter? *fingers crossed*.
Yes the hole is an oil return and it goes to the oil pan. I would still pull the pan to see how much shavings are in there and maybe even pull the oil pickup to look inside and see if it was picking any up, if so then it's time for a total tear down. If you feel you're good to go on the bottom end then I would replace lifters, maybe that one is bad which cause the push rod to become lose, also replace push rod/s and of course rocker. Just depends on how confident you feel with bottom end, shavings or no... Again, just my $.02 for what it's worth.
The hole by #2 in your photo would be an oil drain-back. One at each end of each head. I think you'd want to remove the intake and check the Valley. Oil collects there and drains back, again, front and rear, to the sump or oil pan, so there could be debris there too. When you remove the oil pan, you can also remove a few bearing caps and check the bearings. If any are scored, you're probably looking at a complete tear down. Hopefully, none got picked up and circulated with the oil.
The hole by #2 in your photo would be an oil drain-back. One at each end of each head. I think you'd want to remove the intake and check the Valley. Oil collects there and drains back, again, front and rear, to the sump or oil pan, so there could be debris there too. When you remove the oil pan, you can also remove a few bearing caps and check the bearings. If any are scored, you're probably looking at a complete tear down. Hopefully, none got picked up and circulated with the oil.
Looks like you have a broken valve spring, which added "slop" to that rocker, #7 intake, in the picture, which then allowed the pushrod to "dance around", which then chewed up the underside of the rocker.
As long as the "shrapnel" went to the pan, and then stayed there, you should be relatively OK. I'd start by removing that valve spring.....
Ok guys, I hear you on the valley idea.
Meanwhile, more inputs :
-I managed to unplug the hole in the lifter, and the plug is magnetic too.
-I've found an awfull lot of silvery paste around the bolt where I've found the bigger piece. Something have been gringing very fine for long.
-I've teared the "faulty" rocker, and I also loosen up a good one and turn out there is not such metal ring, the "faulty" and the good one are pretty similar plugged hole aside. The faulty may just have been one that had its bearing not pressed tight enough. Still it was rolling significantly worse than a good one, maybe because is was drier than the good one.
-Turn out the curvature of the big piece is not exactly matching rocker shalft diameter. It must have belonged to something a little bit bigger in diameter.
So, to sum up : I see nothing in the rocker or around that would have been the source of all those shaving, powder and chunks, but still it only happened at the base of cylinder 5 intake valve springs. Mystery deepens.
No brand on rockers, all I got from the "build" of the ******* squirt of an human that was the previous owner is a bill of the part. It says Patriot Head, which are made in china. Pretty sure he got them assembled. Still, rocker don't seems to be more victim than source of the problem.
Looks like you have a broken valve spring, which added "slop" to that rocker, #7 intake, in the picture, which then allowed the pushrod to "dance around", which then chewed up the underside of the rocker.
As long as the "shrapnel" went to the pan, and then stayed there, you should be relatively OK. I'd start by removing that valve spring.....
Springs looks fine, the amount of chewing is minimal and couldn't have produced magnetic bits since it's aluminum.
The more it goes the more it seems possible that this wobbling rocker is unrelated the source of shaving or a consequence of it.
08-21-2017, 02:05 PM
Metal shaving under valve cover, is my engine dying.
