Radiators: Not what they use to be.
12-24-2017, 11:36 AM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Radiators: Not what they use to be.
Replaced the radiator in my '75, two years after I bought it in '04. I was told it was the original when it was replaced. Now, 11 years later, I'm looking at having to replace it again.
Last week I changed the oil and filter. With it being a nice day I took her for a drive to circulate the new oil and enjoy the nice weather. Stopping for a fill of fresh gas, while pumping the gas, I heard a hissing sound from under the hood. Popped the hood and there it was, a small stream shooting out from a pin hole in the radiator.
Anyone else have issues with new replacement parts, radiator or otherwise, not lasting as long as the original?
Probably going to try an aluminum radiator this time.
Last week I changed the oil and filter. With it being a nice day I took her for a drive to circulate the new oil and enjoy the nice weather. Stopping for a fill of fresh gas, while pumping the gas, I heard a hissing sound from under the hood. Popped the hood and there it was, a small stream shooting out from a pin hole in the radiator.
Anyone else have issues with new replacement parts, radiator or otherwise, not lasting as long as the original?
Probably going to try an aluminum radiator this time.
12-24-2017, 12:06 PM
#2
do you ever check the acid level of the coolant with a test strip to alert you it's time to change the coolant?
Last edited by MelWff; 12-24-2017 at 12:06 PM.
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stingraymyway (12-24-2017)
12-24-2017, 01:35 PM
#3
Racer
Replaced the radiator in my '75, two years after I bought it in '04. I was told it was the original when it was replaced. Now, 11 years later, I'm looking at having to replace it again.
Last week I changed the oil and filter. With it being a nice day I took her for a drive to circulate the new oil and enjoy the nice weather. Stopping for a fill of fresh gas, while pumping the gas, I heard a hissing sound from under the hood. Popped the hood and there it was, a small stream shooting out from a pin hole in the radiator.
Anyone else have issues with new replacement parts, radiator or otherwise, not lasting as long as the original?
Probably going to try an aluminum radiator this time.
Last week I changed the oil and filter. With it being a nice day I took her for a drive to circulate the new oil and enjoy the nice weather. Stopping for a fill of fresh gas, while pumping the gas, I heard a hissing sound from under the hood. Popped the hood and there it was, a small stream shooting out from a pin hole in the radiator.
Anyone else have issues with new replacement parts, radiator or otherwise, not lasting as long as the original?
Probably going to try an aluminum radiator this time.
The following users liked this post:
stingraymyway (12-24-2017)
12-24-2017, 02:57 PM
#4
Where did you get the replacement from?
Get a Direct Fit aluminum from Dewitt and have them paint it black before shipping. Psssst...don't tell anybody and they will never know. Your car will run considerably cooler.
Get a Direct Fit aluminum from Dewitt and have them paint it black before shipping. Psssst...don't tell anybody and they will never know. Your car will run considerably cooler.
Last edited by Faster Rat; 12-25-2017 at 10:50 AM.
12-24-2017, 04:10 PM
#5
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Replaced the radiator in my '75, two years after I bought it in '04. I was told it was the original when it was replaced. Now, 11 years later, I'm looking at having to replace it again.
Last week I changed the oil and filter. With it being a nice day I took her for a drive to circulate the new oil and enjoy the nice weather. Stopping for a fill of fresh gas, while pumping the gas, I heard a hissing sound from under the hood. Popped the hood and there it was, a small stream shooting out from a pin hole in the radiator.
Anyone else have issues with new replacement parts, radiator or otherwise, not lasting as long as the original?
Probably going to try an aluminum radiator this time.
Last week I changed the oil and filter. With it being a nice day I took her for a drive to circulate the new oil and enjoy the nice weather. Stopping for a fill of fresh gas, while pumping the gas, I heard a hissing sound from under the hood. Popped the hood and there it was, a small stream shooting out from a pin hole in the radiator.
Anyone else have issues with new replacement parts, radiator or otherwise, not lasting as long as the original?
Probably going to try an aluminum radiator this time.
I recall a few months back a fellow was upset his dewitts was doing that same thing and it was just about 10 years old,
and even mr dewitts pretty much said why fool with it just buy a new one,
So that let some wind out of my sails,
So perhaps 10 years is about the lifespan of an expensive aftermarket radiator,
The cheap one i slapped in the xterra is life time exchange,
The clerk said if it ever leaks while you own the car i hand you a new one, no questions...
12-24-2017, 07:56 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
electrolysis can cause early failure of your radiator. Here is a link on how to check for it.
http://www.griffinrad.com/electrolysis.php?tid=46
Another explanation of it.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/coolin..._corrosion.htm
http://www.griffinrad.com/electrolysis.php?tid=46
Another explanation of it.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/coolin..._corrosion.htm
Last edited by REELAV8R; 12-24-2017 at 08:01 PM.
12-24-2017, 10:43 PM
#8
Former Vendor
12-24-2017, 11:16 PM
#9
Race Director
I had my 71 re-cored, lasted 1 year and started leaking. The radiator shop said the new cores are real thin, they fixed it.
I drive a lot and far from home so I put in a Dewitt's direct fit .
I usually change fluids every 2 years no matter what.
I drive a lot and far from home so I put in a Dewitt's direct fit .
I usually change fluids every 2 years no matter what.
Last edited by BLUE1972; 12-24-2017 at 11:16 PM.
12-27-2017, 01:24 PM
#11
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I didnt think i would be able to find it but i guess "search" does work for me,
Here is what you said, and while i was off on the radiators age by 2 years, my thoughts remain,
The gist i got from that was why fool with it, others will get their own feelings from it but it did and does make me a bit depressed about expensive after market radiators,
Curious, how much is the offered discount in such cases?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ator-time.html
Edit:
I have learned "lifetime warranty"
Means different things to different companies,
The radiator company that sold me the xterra radiator do not pro rate, he says its simple, if the radiator ever leaks while you own the car i hand you a new unit free,
Its like that on many parts, alt, calipers, etc
Here is what you said, and while i was off on the radiators age by 2 years, my thoughts remain,
The gist i got from that was why fool with it, others will get their own feelings from it but it did and does make me a bit depressed about expensive after market radiators,
Curious, how much is the offered discount in such cases?
Please note to all CF members....I am now retired. I sold the company in 2015 and my old team is running the business like a well oil machine. I still do design and engineering services as a part time employee but I do not get involved in the day to day calls and business activity. So if you call here and ask for Tom, there isn't one. John is now handling all the technical questions and stuff.
As far as warranty on your radiator goes you do have to ask yourself if you want a repaired, 12 year old radiator in your car? If so, then do you want to spend the money to send it back and forth? If you answered yes to these questions, pack it up and ship it to us. We have never refused to help anyone and that's why we switched to the lifetime warranty policy. We never cut anyone off, regardless of the age of the radiator. We will look at it and make a judgement call on the cause of the leak and the extent of the damage as well as the likely hood the repair will hold up. Many times we will suggest scraping the radiator and discounting the purchase on a new one. It's kind of like the same thing when you buy tires with a 80,000 mile warranty and they are bald at 65,000. The guy isn't going to give you free tires, they are going to pro rate the new ones based on what life you did get to use them. A lifetime warranty does not mean something will last forever. It means the manufacture will replace it if it fails due to a defect in materials or workmanship.
You could possibility fix it yourself if you are handy. The key to fixing it is locating it. Pulling the radiator and pressurizing it under water will reveal everything clearly. If the leak is small like bubbles or carbonation, then you could fix that with two part epoxy. If it is a hole that is spraying, then I wouldn't try to fill it. Epoxy sticks to aluminum really good, some companies actually make their radiators with it. So if you FIND it, CLEAN, it, and PATCH it. It probably will hold a long time. I like the clear, two piston syringe, kits of clear stuff. Please note you do not have to pile it on or build it up. Less is more and a hair dryer or heat gun will help it flow and cure, just don't burn it.
Here is the basics
REPAIR
As far as warranty on your radiator goes you do have to ask yourself if you want a repaired, 12 year old radiator in your car? If so, then do you want to spend the money to send it back and forth? If you answered yes to these questions, pack it up and ship it to us. We have never refused to help anyone and that's why we switched to the lifetime warranty policy. We never cut anyone off, regardless of the age of the radiator. We will look at it and make a judgement call on the cause of the leak and the extent of the damage as well as the likely hood the repair will hold up. Many times we will suggest scraping the radiator and discounting the purchase on a new one. It's kind of like the same thing when you buy tires with a 80,000 mile warranty and they are bald at 65,000. The guy isn't going to give you free tires, they are going to pro rate the new ones based on what life you did get to use them. A lifetime warranty does not mean something will last forever. It means the manufacture will replace it if it fails due to a defect in materials or workmanship.
You could possibility fix it yourself if you are handy. The key to fixing it is locating it. Pulling the radiator and pressurizing it under water will reveal everything clearly. If the leak is small like bubbles or carbonation, then you could fix that with two part epoxy. If it is a hole that is spraying, then I wouldn't try to fill it. Epoxy sticks to aluminum really good, some companies actually make their radiators with it. So if you FIND it, CLEAN, it, and PATCH it. It probably will hold a long time. I like the clear, two piston syringe, kits of clear stuff. Please note you do not have to pile it on or build it up. Less is more and a hair dryer or heat gun will help it flow and cure, just don't burn it.
Here is the basics
REPAIR
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ator-time.html
Edit:
I have learned "lifetime warranty"
Means different things to different companies,
The radiator company that sold me the xterra radiator do not pro rate, he says its simple, if the radiator ever leaks while you own the car i hand you a new unit free,
Its like that on many parts, alt, calipers, etc
Last edited by The13Bats; 12-27-2017 at 01:50 PM.
12-27-2017, 02:39 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
I just had my orginal 69 radiator recored. Took me forever to get old one out and new re-cored one back in car. Drove it around block amd had 5 leaks. Took it back and they tried to fix it and after 30 mins I asked them about getting a new core. Im hoping to put new new re-cored radiator in this week.
At least putting them in and out has gotten easier.
At least putting them in and out has gotten easier.
12-27-2017, 03:13 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
Tips to make a radiator last.
Use only distilled water to mix with antifreeze in a 50/50 mix.
Ground radiator to prevent electrolysis. You can go further with this and install a zinc anode in the drain port.
Check coolant yearly for acid content with test strip. Change coolant if it shows acid or if it starts to look dirty.
Mike
Use only distilled water to mix with antifreeze in a 50/50 mix.
Ground radiator to prevent electrolysis. You can go further with this and install a zinc anode in the drain port.
Check coolant yearly for acid content with test strip. Change coolant if it shows acid or if it starts to look dirty.
Mike
Cools 30% better than stock
12-27-2017, 05:02 PM
#16
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From the dewitts tech on copper vs aluminum,
Copper is actually a better conductor of heat than aluminum. The problem is a copper radiator is not ALL copper. The tubes and fin are copper however they are bonded together with lead, which has horrible heat transfer capabilities. The end tanks are brass and the side channels are steel. The trick to better cooling is wider tubes and shorter fin. This increases the “tube to fin” contact area, which determines the radiator efficiency.
A typical 4 row copper radiator uses 7/16" tubes while the aluminum radiators use two rows 1" tubes.
Then the copper radiator uses 1/2 tall fin while the aluminum radiator uses 3/8" fin. The shorter fin increases the number of tube layers in a given stack up. For example a 18.5" tall radiator has 30 layers for the copper unit versus 40 layers for the aluminum. So you have more layers per stack up and more surface area in each layer. The aluminum radiator is 100% aluminum, furnace brazed. That is why aluminum radiators work better than copper ones. If you could build a copper radiator the exact same way we make the aluminum ones, it would work better than the aluminum. It would also weigh about 90 pounds.
A typical 4 row copper radiator uses 7/16" tubes while the aluminum radiators use two rows 1" tubes.
Then the copper radiator uses 1/2 tall fin while the aluminum radiator uses 3/8" fin. The shorter fin increases the number of tube layers in a given stack up. For example a 18.5" tall radiator has 30 layers for the copper unit versus 40 layers for the aluminum. So you have more layers per stack up and more surface area in each layer. The aluminum radiator is 100% aluminum, furnace brazed. That is why aluminum radiators work better than copper ones. If you could build a copper radiator the exact same way we make the aluminum ones, it would work better than the aluminum. It would also weigh about 90 pounds.
12-27-2017, 05:03 PM
#17
Drifting
Check out Champion radiators warranty here https://shop.championcooling.com/warranty
and also read their mission statement, it's very impressive. Glad I bought one.
and also read their mission statement, it's very impressive. Glad I bought one.
12-27-2017, 05:28 PM
#18
Former Vendor
Come on Bats, who are you trying to fool. There was never really any "wind" in your sales or were you ecstatic about high end radiators. Your passive/aggressive comments about radiators may fool others but not me. You defined the lower priced radiators as "best value" and DeWitts with "money to burn" as if that was a friendly and neutral way to describe them. If I knew nothing about this issue and listened to this advice I probably would go with the lower priced one myself.
You quoted me as saying something that I didn't say. It wasn't even a close paraphrase. It was your bias "interpretation" of my explanation on warranty. A comment you said was a few months ago, was actually seven months ago. The OP was not "upset" and it was about a twelve year old radiator with a small leak that DeWitts would fully support. The fact you even remembered a seven month old thread and were able to find it speaks volume to your obsession about calling DeWitts out.
Several times you pointed out you own a DeWitts radiator. What hasn't been mentioned is I sold that to you at the same price as a Champion so you could actually experience the DeWitts difference. That seemed to pause your crusade for a while but it slowly returned, cloaked as un-bias CF member.
I don't believe any radiator company is just going to "hand over" a new radiator without some kind of review. Often what someone says is different than what someone does. DeWitts has a history of support, documented here on the CF in hundreds of threads. DeWitts warranty is clear and available for download.
I'd like to hear others opinions (what I said) on this and not just a defensive rebuttal. I already know your not going to understand.
Last edited by Tom@Dewitt; 12-27-2017 at 06:22 PM.
12-27-2017, 06:40 PM
#19
Former Vendor
By highlighting and posting the above statement, immediately after
Cools 30% better than stock
could be viewed as a rebuttal or support to the contrary.
the point to that statement was actually the part you didn't highlight.
The problem is a copper radiator is not ALL copper. The tubes and fin are copper however they are bonded together with lead, which has horrible heat transfer capabilities. The end tanks are brass and the side channels are steel. The trick to better cooling is wider tubes and shorter fin. This increases the “tube to fin” contact area, which determines the radiator efficiency.
A typical 4 row copper radiator uses 7/16" tubes while the aluminum radiators use two rows 1" tubes.
Then the copper radiator uses 1/2 tall fin while the aluminum radiator uses 3/8" fin. The shorter fin increases the number of tube layers in a given stack up. For example a 18.5" tall radiator has 30 layers for the copper unit versus 40 layers for the aluminum. So you have more layers per stack up and more surface area in each layer. The aluminum radiator is 100% aluminum, furnace brazed. That is why aluminum radiators work better than copper ones.
Last edited by Tom@Dewitt; 12-27-2017 at 06:44 PM.
12-27-2017, 06:54 PM
#20
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Come on Bats, who are you trying to fool. There was never really any "wind" in your sales or were you ecstatic about high end radiators. Your passive/aggressive comments about radiators may fool others but not me. You defined the lower priced radiators as "best value" and DeWitts with "money to burn" as if that was a friendly and neutral way to describe them. If I knew nothing about this issue and listened to this advice I probably would go with the lower priced one myself.
I did call champions a great value, and i said dewitts were a work of art if i said dewitts were for people with money to burn thats odd for me to say do you have a link to my post,
Lots of guys like one radiator over another on here.
You quoted me as saying something that I didn't say. It wasn't even a close paraphrase. It was your bias "interpretation" of my explanation on warranty. A comment you said was a few months ago, was actually seven months ago. The OP was not "upset" and it was about a twelve year old radiator with a small leak that DeWitts would fully support. The fact you even remembered a seven month old thread and were able to find it speaks volume to your obsession about calling DeWitts out.
I found the thread using the forum search feature no great accomplishment even for me,
As flattering as it might seem at first i have a very detailed mind, so it has more to do with remembering stuff without trying to than calling anyone out or any obsession with dewitts, which isnt the case,
Im great at those trivia games, or listing every song i played back to back the last 8 hours,
I posted a link to the thread and a cut and paste of what you had posted back then and i took it my way, others will each take it their way, you dont like my take so you call me biased.
But i thought it might relate to the ops thoughts on radiators
Several times you pointed out you own a DeWitts radiator. What hasn't been mentioned is I sold that to you at the same price as a Champion so you could actually experience the DeWitts difference. That seemed to pause your crusade for a while but it slowly returned, cloaked as un-bias CF member.
You asked me not to discuss the price you sold me a DeWitts for but if you recall i went with the custom bigger and the price i paid you was way more than the comparable champion, but you did give me price cut from normal dewitts pricing,
I also said i had a 454 but got a sb radiator,
The unit you sent me is a stunning work of art and no doubt overkill for my cooling needs,
I don't believe any radiator company is just going to "hand over" a new radiator without some kind of review. Often what someone says is different than what someone does. DeWitts has a history of support, documented here on the CF in hundreds of threads. DeWitts warranty is clear and available for download. I encourage someone to compare this warranty with that other radiator. If you can't find theirs I would be happy to post a link. There are so many exclusions and exceptions that I don't know how anything would be covered.
Another member posted champions warrantee and ill have to go look up who sold me the xterra radiator so you can talk to them about theirs, but the guy was adamant it was no questions asked, if it leaks he hands me new one,
The xterra has over 200k miles and isnt feeling good so it will likely give up before tge radiator,
I'd like to hear others opinions (what I said) on this and not just a defensive rebuttal. I already know your not going to understand.
I did call champions a great value, and i said dewitts were a work of art if i said dewitts were for people with money to burn thats odd for me to say do you have a link to my post,
Lots of guys like one radiator over another on here.
You quoted me as saying something that I didn't say. It wasn't even a close paraphrase. It was your bias "interpretation" of my explanation on warranty. A comment you said was a few months ago, was actually seven months ago. The OP was not "upset" and it was about a twelve year old radiator with a small leak that DeWitts would fully support. The fact you even remembered a seven month old thread and were able to find it speaks volume to your obsession about calling DeWitts out.
I found the thread using the forum search feature no great accomplishment even for me,
As flattering as it might seem at first i have a very detailed mind, so it has more to do with remembering stuff without trying to than calling anyone out or any obsession with dewitts, which isnt the case,
Im great at those trivia games, or listing every song i played back to back the last 8 hours,
I posted a link to the thread and a cut and paste of what you had posted back then and i took it my way, others will each take it their way, you dont like my take so you call me biased.
But i thought it might relate to the ops thoughts on radiators
Several times you pointed out you own a DeWitts radiator. What hasn't been mentioned is I sold that to you at the same price as a Champion so you could actually experience the DeWitts difference. That seemed to pause your crusade for a while but it slowly returned, cloaked as un-bias CF member.
You asked me not to discuss the price you sold me a DeWitts for but if you recall i went with the custom bigger and the price i paid you was way more than the comparable champion, but you did give me price cut from normal dewitts pricing,
I also said i had a 454 but got a sb radiator,
The unit you sent me is a stunning work of art and no doubt overkill for my cooling needs,
I don't believe any radiator company is just going to "hand over" a new radiator without some kind of review. Often what someone says is different than what someone does. DeWitts has a history of support, documented here on the CF in hundreds of threads. DeWitts warranty is clear and available for download. I encourage someone to compare this warranty with that other radiator. If you can't find theirs I would be happy to post a link. There are so many exclusions and exceptions that I don't know how anything would be covered.
Another member posted champions warrantee and ill have to go look up who sold me the xterra radiator so you can talk to them about theirs, but the guy was adamant it was no questions asked, if it leaks he hands me new one,
The xterra has over 200k miles and isnt feeling good so it will likely give up before tge radiator,
I'd like to hear others opinions (what I said) on this and not just a defensive rebuttal. I already know your not going to understand.
I do understand more than you might care to admit,
And i have no defensive rebuttle to offer, afterall i know you are here to sell radiators, i do understand and respect that,
Like other members im here for a open exchange of information.
no one has ever that i know of argued that the dewitts is not a top end part that will do what its promised to do, cool a hard to cool car, and do so with top end quality and looks more of art than a car part,
Its also been proven here with feedback that guys are happy with other radiator brands too,
Those guys should not be disparaged for their choice but they are,
I was starry eyed and wind in my sails over buying your high end radiator but yes i admit a lot of that dimmed down since then, mosty from how i see guys treated who want to discuss other options to your product here, the belittling given if a guy wants to talk other brands did get to me, oh well, so what, who cares?
But yeah, 2017 wasnt great i look forward to a better 2018 and hope for peace,
Have a great one, tom and everyone,