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Person is renting out a restamp kit. I really didn't think things like this was allowed especially in public. I have read of places that do it, but thought it was more under the radar. First time i seen a publicized advertising of it.
It is very common. Most all machine shops have them. Not intended for fraud, but when they machine an engine block and deck it, it removes the engine number. Most ALL high end machine shops take a picture of the engine number and then re-stamp it after its been machined and decked.
If not, a very high percentage of all original reworked engines would be running around w/o an engine number. I bet you’ve never seen an engine without a number. Think about it.
$395 is cheap when considering authenticating a valuable high end Corvette..don't think for a minute it is used honestly in every case.
One example why some people don't always value the whole "numbers matching" stigma.
Morals can take second place vs profit dollars..a shame.
It is very common. Most all machine shops have them. Not intended for fraud, but when they machine an engine block and deck it, it removes the engine number. Most ALL high end machine shops take a picture of the engine number and then re-stamp it after its been machined and decked.
If not, a very high percentage of all original reworked engines would be running around w/o an engine number. I bet you’ve never seen an engine without a number. Think about it.
Hmmm...my social security card just went through the wash- it's now unreadable-I do however have a "copy" of it. Should I contact the guy on Craigslist???
It is fraud...anyway you want to tip-toe around it...
It is NOT fraud to replace your original numbers. The actual definition of “fraud” is to trick or mislead someone, most often for a gain. Restamping your own original number back in to your own engine is not “fraud”.
Now, i agree that most all restamps will be fraudulent. But the “process” of restamping is not fraud.
[left]It is very common. Most all machine shops have them. Not intended for fraud, but when they machine an engine block and deck it, it removes the engine number.
I know a few engine shops, and none of them regularly deck blocks. There is rarely a need to deck a block, and the shops that do it, are usually just ripping people off.
Besides, the really good "high end" shops can deck a block, without touching the stamp pad, on those rare occasions when a block really does need to be decked.
Originally Posted by kenba
These are generic stamps. They will not fool people that know what they are looking at.
Randy at Engines Limited, the person renting that kit, has been stamping blocks for about 40 years, and is very good at it. These are not "generic" stamps. Randy has the correct fonts and gang holders, to stamp a block. There are quite a few cars that have received a Top Flight, with an Engines Limited restamped pad.
Unless you have known original stamps, stamped the same day as the car you're looking at, to compare with that car's VIN stamp, it's almost impossible to detect a good restamp.
I'm not defending what he does, or restamps in general, I'm just saying that there are some very good restamps out there. I've seen restamps done by Engines Limited, and they are very good.
First I will say that I have a number matching car, so what I am going to say is not something that would benefit me.
Maybe it is time after 45-50 years that the NCRS stop this madness of Judging cars based on whether the numbers match. Really, many engines are changed because of necessity. Some are replaced by warrantee because they were defective. To me it seems there should be relevant criteria that would preserve the original look and performance of the engine without it being the engine the car was born with.
This would eliminate this practice that some consider fraud.
But that is just me.
The NCRS DOES downplay the stamp pad. the points loss is minimal and is simply made up by driving your car to the judging, and having a NCRS sticker on the windshield, and having a fire extinguisher in your car. One can easily top flight the car even with a blank stamping pad.
the overwhelming number of corvettes are NOT NCRS Judged.
A correctly stamped motor gets the owner leverage at selling time to get top dollar, and bragging at the shows.
whatever the ethics are and whomever you are fooling are somewhat downplayed due to the fact the the spread between a typical numbers matching car and a typical non numbers matching car is decreasing due to all the fakes.
but in reality, there is no difference between a original engine and a well restamped and correctly broached one, given that all else is apples to apples. neither can be proven or disproved.
So I get an engine redone and have original numbers restamped into block this is illegal? Phil
Then they are not "original numbers" they are restamps- plain and simple....
It's just like taking the paint off the car- painting it the same color & type and even going to the trouble of even using the same type of spray gun they used at the factory - then saying its original...
Whether or not it's illegal? That depends on your attorney and the laws in your state...
Originally Posted by joewill
A correctly stamped motor gets the owner leverage at selling time to get top dollar, and bragging at the shows.
whatever the ethics are and whomever you are fooling are somewhat downplayed due to the fact the the spread between a typical numbers matching car and a typical non numbers matching car is decreasing due to all the fakes.
but in reality, there is no difference between a original engine and a well restamped and correctly broached one, given that all else is apples to apples. neither can be proven or disproved.
You nailed it Joe-
Happens in all collectables when the fakes become soo good...
And It's not just the NCRS- but the "matching numbers" being the end all be all in value....
02-15-2018, 08:48 AM
Restamp rental
