Hopper12

Hi, about a week ago I posted some 1-2 year old pics I had of a '68 427 roadster project that a friend of a friend is getting ready to sell (they ran out of time and $ to finish it).

Several of you gave good insight, and the questions revolved around the engine pad stamp and a few other items. I really appreciate the help. Went to see the car Saturday, and here are the wave tops.

* The car was as described. All the work done on the body off was well done - just dusty after a few years. :-)
* Birdcage looks really good. I've included one pic, but all looks very good. And sorry that pic isn't that good - it was all clean in the bottom of that area too.
* Engine (rebuilt) started and ran great.
* Brakes, suspension, hoses, lines, etc. are all done extremely well.
* New clutch, pp, etc. All mechanicals done.
* Interior is back in the car. Needs seats recovered, but no big deal. Has new carpet.
* All gauges work. All interior lights, etc. Clock works for a while if you tap it (I know. :-) ).
* Hard top (originally vinyl covered) is just a bit rough (I don't really care), and there is a new soft top (not installed yet).
* All the body/trim, etc. is there.
* Since the body was off, it needs some aligning at the door/fender on the pass side - I'm guessing I can figure this out. Not horrible, but needs some work.
* Trans stamping, etc. checks out.
* Carbs and head casting numbers/dates check out.
* Dist is correct for trans ign
* Trim tag checks out well with what I can see was a 974 paint code and the build date correlates well with the dates on other items I could confirm (alt and water pump have been replaced).

I would really appreciate some help in a couple of areas (and others if you'd like to comment too): engine pad stamping; body.

Engine Pad:
* As you can see from the pics, the '6' in the engine VIN stamp is weird. Alan suggested that I get a pic with the paint carefully removed so we could see the bare metal. I've done that in this new pic. I don't see evidence of anyone grinding down the pad and re-stamping, but I'm no expert in this area.

Body:
* It appears to me that this car has not been hit in the front, but appears it's been hit in the rear (please see right rear quarter and rear end pics). Not the end of the world by any stretch for a car this old - but just looking for opinions to see if you agree and spot anything that I should be concerned with.

Pricing:
* $25k. I do my own body and paint work - enjoy that and have won several ISCA awards so I'm ok with it. This seems reasonable to me.

Thoughts and input are really appreciated. Thank you. Paul

ralphspears

Car has 1970- 73 rear 1/4 panels

Alan 71

Hi H12,
Are you still able to have access to the car?
Based on Ralph's comment it might be nice to see if this car has had frame repair or a replaced frame.
The frame appears to have the diagonal braces at the kick-up. This change was in mid 68 production.
The car's VIN was stamped in the top of the left side frame rail just forward of the #4 body mount bracket.
What's there now?

Regards,
Alan

Hopper12

Hi Ralph. Appreciate the input. How can you tell (I'm clearly no C3 expert. We have a '72 and that's my only C3 experience)? I've put a few more pics below for reference. Thanks, Paul

Hopper12

Hi Alan, I do have access to the car - it's about an hour away. And I have one of those handy mirrors too. I thought I knew it had been hit in the rear, but never would have guessed is had the wrong quarters. More phone calls and another road trip it appears. :-)

This help is invaluable.

Alan 71

Hi H,
For 70 the front and rear fenders 'grew' the flared area to the rear of the wheel arch opening.
68-69 cars were smooth... but more susceptible to thrown debris from the tires.
Notice the difference between the front and rear wheel arches on the body on this car.
Regards,
Alan

This REALLY doesn't limit the fun you can have with this car... but, it does affect what you should pay for it and also affects the limit of the up-side value.

ralphspears

70-73 1/4 panels have the flares behind the wheels & larger side marker lights and different cut outs for the exhaust pipes

Hopper12

I get it - been looking at pics of '68s for sale vs. the pic of the quarters on this car and I can clearly see the difference behind the rear wheels.

Thanks to Ralph's and your eagle eyes, I have a much better understanding of why the rear of this car bothered me.

Now I've got to decide what to do and, at this point, I think it's a pass. If I'm going to spend my time working on something and make it really nice, I don't want to have a completely incorrect rear clip on it.

Hopper12

Many thanks to Ralph and Alan for pointing out something I didn't know - and saving me from an expensive mistake.

This is why I appreciate this forum - great enthusiasts who are willing to take the time to share their knowledge.

Taking a pass on this one. Thank you!

Alan 71

Hi H,
It still MIGHT be a nice car for someone...what's not to like about a 68, 427, convertible???!!!
The person who takes it on just needs to understand what it is, how much they should pay for it, and what it's potential is.
Regards,
Alan

joewill

25K for a no excuses real original numbered and bodied big block convertible project is not out of line. this car will need well into 5 figures to finish. and with the excuses we see so far, too costly for its upside potential

fake

The 1968 model were hard to sell when used. They rode poorly and were not improved till late in build year. Only buy cars restored and matching numbers. Parts are very hard to find and to rebuild a starter for example these guys are dying and retiring and those China rebuilds are junk!

Rescue Rogers

looks like it just needs paint at this point. I'ld buy it for 25K and I think its worth every penny of it. Especially if you are your own paintman.

Any pics of the motor?

20mercury

Nice Corvette project!

Thought for you.

Unlike many Corvette enthusiasts, if you are able to do great body work, why not just replace the 2 rear fenders with 68/69 rear fenders? You are out only the cost of materials (assuming your time is free, like I do, , not really true, but....)

As said above, you just want to pay commiserate with the wrong rear fenders and atypical pad stamp. If you point out the 70+ rear fenders and pad stamp to the seller, then you can rightly explain the needed discount in order for you to be able to justify purchasing. And "weird" "6" discount which will always be a question and another discount too when and if you got ready to sell it.

Still a very nice project, IMHO, for the fair market price which you are not too far from; me thinks.

Good luck with which ever way you go, if you decide to pass and yes I can understand first hand, ha, putting time and money into one that will only sell for so much, consider passing along the contact info to this forum as somebody here might be interested.

All the best!

Hopper12

Really appreciate all the input. The saga continues (maybe), with a bit of new information.

* I called the owner last night - didn't get him so I left a vm. I let him know that I realize that he's done a ton of work, but to my surprise, and I'm sure to his, someone put incorrect quarters on the car - that I'd learned that 68-9 quarters were different - and I was going to pass. Asked him to call me if he liked.
* Got a text back saying he didn't want to call me back that late (around 10), but he was going to have the quarters replaced with the correct ones and would let me know when it was done if I would be interested at that point.

I THINK he really didn't know. Only vette he's ever owned. We have a '72 and I didn't know it until Ralph and Alan pointed it out to me (thank you again).

I might be crazy, but I still MAY consider the car if the quarters are done well. Am I nuts? If I'm not nuts, what additional considerations should I be concerned with?

* Alan pointed out that the frame looked like a mid-year or later. The build date is Dec 22. I can check the frame rails where Alan indicated to see if it's the frame the car came with. If it's not, I'm thinking this is really more of a 'salvage' car and I'd likely pass regardless of anything else.
* The '6' on the engine stamp still bugs me (pics in the first post in this thread). It's just weird, and I think I know that this is only way to tell if the engine is original to the car. On a 427 car that I would put a lot of work into, this is important to me. The other items seem to check out as stated in my first post.
* How big a deal is it to have the rear quarters replaced? My thought is that if it is done well, it's okay if the rest of the car checks out.

As a reminder, I'm good with doing my own body (to a point. If a car needs quarters, I've always paid to have them replaced and then I do the rest. I've worked on glass before - restored a '72 Lotus Europa), paint, and interior work. I just want to spend my time on a project that will be worth it in the end. There are probably lots of other projects I could find, but none of them will be 'perfect'. This one has a lot of the 'grunt' work done - but I'm not certain the important bones are good enough.

PS to Rescue Rogers. I'm adding some pics of the engine - the first pic of the engine pad was sent to me from a couple of years ago, and the others are some I took Saturday (the car has been run since the original pics so it's not quite as nice looking now - it starts/runs great). The owner removed the paint from the pad at my request before I came to look at it based on Alan's advice.

Lobzila

The question you need to ask yourself is, Can I live with this car?. If its a true 68, it is almost over 50 years old. Not that any mods done to it are a bad thing, but after fifty years, something has been changed on the car somewhere. When I did my frame off resto, I had the frame upgraded and reinforced in various spots to make it more solid. I did not want to go through all that work just to have a car that drove like a fifty year old car. It was state of the art, fifty years ago. I changed out the steering system for rack and pinion, because it drove a lot better and was well worth it.
If you are buying it to keep it original, great. But in the past fifty years, someone molested it somehow. As far as the engine stamp, ask any engine builder how many re-stamps he has done. It might be real, but it might not be either.
Tell him 20K and leave the quarters alone and once you finish it, no one with ever question if there 70-73 on there, people will just compliment you on a driving a bitchin 68 Big Block convertible.
Or go the original route, your call. Good luck!

Hemi John

Did you find out if 435hp or 390? That would make my mind up right there. A good amount of work done and $ spent, but alot of time and $ to go. I always fall for projects like this, and in the end would've been cheaper to buy one fully restored.

Good luck!

CA-Legal-Vette

Another thing to consider. One of the reasons that the rear fenders were changed after 68 is that they tended to get paint chips at the trailing edge when driving. Food for thought.

Hopper12

^^^^ I thought of that too. I'm guessing that's why they were re-designed after the first two years of the C3.

Hemi John: I did confirm, and the stamp/carbs go along with, a 400hp 3x2. So it's the hydraulic lifter version of the tri-carb.

Lobzilla: I agree with your thoughts. Finding a no-hit, non-molested 427 C3 is a needle in the haystack, and I wouldn't find it for this price with this much work done to it. I may do the '$20k as is' you mention.

At this point I'm still going to strongly consider the car. I'm talking with him about the quarters (I would want the correct type quarters on any car I consider). He was going to have them replaced and then have me come back and look at the car. I may tell him $20k as is, we'll see.

I'm a sucker for these types of projects too. Full disclosure, I've restored nearly 80 cars over the years - just never vettes. I started it as a way to make money to buy a house, and it turned into a side 'business', and then into showing cars at ISCA events. Then I just ran out of time and didn't do any for a while.

While I do my own body/paint work, I always farm out rear quarter replacements if I need one. I prefer to find someone who has the expertise in that area, and this C3 would need someone who is experienced in that area as far as I'm concerned.

Once the quarters are in, I'm in my element. I've learned over the years that 90% of a great paint job is in the body work and prep. I'm not good at a lot of things, but I just seemed to develop a knack (with the help of a lot of great mentors) for body and paint work. Cars I did and shot in my garage won best paint and best restored awards in ISCA events. Even a blind squirrel can find an acorn......

Like you all, another reason I'm a sucker for these types of projects is that we 'save' a great car for us, our family, and others to enjoy for years. Sounds a bit corny, but I think we all take some pride in that.

Your input is very much appreciated. Please keep sharing ideas and thoughts - they help me sort thru this as vintage vettes are not in my wheelhouse. Yet.

Thanks, Paul

20mercury

Another thought for you, IMHO, with your level of expertise, you would easily be able to do the rear quarters replacement yourself. Check out the Glass Ra CD's vol 3 and vol 4 (@ebay or other) for C3's plus the paint section here for advice. And here is another informative one: http://www.corvette-restoration.com/...ody/?order=asc

If this guy and others here can do it and I can figure it out, you can very likely do it in one tenth the time, ha! Plus there is the satisfaction of doing it yourself. And I always ask myself; ok, what is the worst that can happen? you would pull the fenders back off and pay somebody to put them on, hmmmm.... which you were considering anyway.

Anyway, my 2 cents, and best of luck with whatever you decide. The biggest question is the market value pad "6" discount now and later one day. And agree, you have to decide where to invest your valuable time and hard earned "toad pelts".

Oh, these Corvettes are highly addictive behavior, so be forewarned!

(And I am sure Lotus' are addictive too, but I am not sure I could ever get out of the Corvette addiction or would want to)