Windshield install painted area.
06-18-2018, 05:34 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Windshield install painted area.
I am going to install my windshield tomorrow. I dry fit it and marked where it has to go. Now I am using 3/8 butyl tape. I am going to run it around the edge of the windshield about 1/8 from the edge.
Now when I get it to the painted area do I run it 1/8 down from the top of straight edge of the painted area.
The last windshield I did it was on my 80 and I had a guy come in and used urethane and the moldings didn't fit right. Before that I always used the butyl tape and never had a problem.
Now when I get it to the painted area do I run it 1/8 down from the top of straight edge of the painted area.
The last windshield I did it was on my 80 and I had a guy come in and used urethane and the moldings didn't fit right. Before that I always used the butyl tape and never had a problem.
06-18-2018, 10:22 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
When I did mine, I used Urethane on top and bottom of the 3/8 butyl tape - mostly for adhesion but also give a super seal. Been many years with no leaks or troubles.
06-19-2018, 06:09 AM
#3
Race Director
Thread Starter
06-19-2018, 11:35 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
What I did,....
IMHO, I have installed 2 windshields on 2 different 68's, about to do 2 more on a 72 and another 68. I used only the 3/8" butyl tape all around, no urethane. If you get the butyl tape kit, make sure you also use the primer included plus follow directions.
I started the tape at the bottom on the windshield frame, up the mating surface, across the top mating surface and back down the mating surface, then across the top edge of the mating surface at the bottom, then overlapping the starting point and cut off. I also ran another tape line around the bottom of the glass. So, I first put the tape on the windshield frame, and then placed the glass into proper position using glued in stops at the bottom and cut tape alignment pieces at each top edge. You have to press the glass in to get good contact and squish the tape in some from the sides to make sure you have a good seal all around.
All worked great, no leaks at the glass. However, both 68's were roadsters, so they leaked everywhere else ha!
BUT not at the glass! You can dribble a water hose at the tape joint when you are done to make sure.Now, I also suggest you do research, some say do not use only butyl tape, I believe that is all they used to use until the feds came out and mandated urethane. The concern is the glass might pop out in a severe accident, some report after looking at a number of accidents, it did not pop out and/or probably did not make any difference anyway. One good thing is the tape gives you a little flex ability, one 68 I had the new glass was installed with urethane and went over a railroad track and the glass cracked (we think). So I concluded this is a controversial subject with different viewpoints and without 100% conclusive results. So, again I suggest research and make your own decision. Some also believe the glass gives the windshield some structural integrity when installed with urethane, but I find this hard to believe.
Good luck and hope this might help.
Last edited by 20mercury; 06-19-2018 at 11:39 AM.
06-19-2018, 01:03 PM
#5
Race Director
You are aware that butyl tape was NOT used to install the windshield Urethane needs to be used...for whatever that is worth. I know it is used by people and can be used because people think it is OK. But it does not hold the glass as good as urethane can. And thus...is NOT what is actually supposed to be used.
And for whatever this is worth. A special butyl primer should be applied to the pinchweld area also. I use it when I am installing the back glass on a 1973-1977. Which DOES use butyl tape for it.
Lastly...I have a glass company who installs my windshield and it is not hard to get the glass to fit correctly so all of the molding on and look good when completed. The reason I do not install them myself...is cost. It is cheaper for my customer to have me pay them to do it then pay me to do it.
Hope it all goes well for you.
DUB
And for whatever this is worth. A special butyl primer should be applied to the pinchweld area also. I use it when I am installing the back glass on a 1973-1977. Which DOES use butyl tape for it.
Lastly...I have a glass company who installs my windshield and it is not hard to get the glass to fit correctly so all of the molding on and look good when completed. The reason I do not install them myself...is cost. It is cheaper for my customer to have me pay them to do it then pay me to do it.
Hope it all goes well for you.
DUB
Last edited by DUB; 06-19-2018 at 03:29 PM.
06-19-2018, 01:43 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
You are aware that butyl tape was NOT used to install the windshield Urethane needs to be used...for whatever that is worth. I know it is used by people and can be used because people think it is OK. But it does not hold the glass as good as urethane can. And thus...is NOT what is actually supposed to be used.
And for whatever this is worth. A special butyl primer should be applied to the pinchweld area also. I use it when I am installing the back glass on a 1973-1977. Which DOES use butyl tape for it.
Lastly...I have a glass company who installs my windshield and it is not hard to get the glass to fit correctly so all of the molding on and look good when completed. The reason I do not install them myself...is cost. It is cheaper for my customer to have me pay them to do it then pay me to do it.
Hope it all geos well for you.
DUB
And for whatever this is worth. A special butyl primer should be applied to the pinchweld area also. I use it when I am installing the back glass on a 1973-1977. Which DOES use butyl tape for it.
Lastly...I have a glass company who installs my windshield and it is not hard to get the glass to fit correctly so all of the molding on and look good when completed. The reason I do not install them myself...is cost. It is cheaper for my customer to have me pay them to do it then pay me to do it.
Hope it all geos well for you.
DUB
Agree and I know and understand that C3 windshields were not originally installed with butyl tape.
However, I do believe and understand that butyl tape was used in other and previous windshield installs. Also pointed out to use the primer and follow the butyl tape instructions. And finally I thought I pointed out in much detail to do your own due diligence and make your own decision. I know some that swear by urethane and others who have used butyl tape only and others that used both. All with success. So lots of ways to do this, I just suggest you hear all points of view and decide for yourself which way to install.
Last edited by 20mercury; 06-19-2018 at 01:46 PM.
06-19-2018, 03:48 PM
#8
Race Director
Thread Starter
You are aware that butyl tape was NOT used to install the windshield Urethane needs to be used...for whatever that is worth. I know it is used by people and can be used because people think it is OK. But it does not hold the glass as good as urethane can. And thus...is NOT what is actually supposed to be used.
And for whatever this is worth. A special butyl primer should be applied to the pinchweld area also. I use it when I am installing the back glass on a 1973-1977. Which DOES use butyl tape for it.
Lastly...I have a glass company who installs my windshield and it is not hard to get the glass to fit correctly so all of the molding on and look good when completed. The reason I do not install them myself...is cost. It is cheaper for my customer to have me pay them to do it then pay me to do it.
Hope it all goes well for you.
DUB
And for whatever this is worth. A special butyl primer should be applied to the pinchweld area also. I use it when I am installing the back glass on a 1973-1977. Which DOES use butyl tape for it.
Lastly...I have a glass company who installs my windshield and it is not hard to get the glass to fit correctly so all of the molding on and look good when completed. The reason I do not install them myself...is cost. It is cheaper for my customer to have me pay them to do it then pay me to do it.
Hope it all goes well for you.
DUB
Thank you for your input. I am aware it wasn't used but from what I have read neither was urethane. I use the tape because it is convenient to use, dosen't make a mess and I don't have to use spacers. I have never had a problem using butyl tape and have been using it for a long time now going back 45 years when no one even heard of urethane for windshields and used the butyl tape.
The install went well and all the moldings sit and lione up as they should. I am polishing them out right now and will put everything together soon.
06-19-2018, 03:54 PM
#9
Race Director
For those who care to under this issue a bit better.
There is a reason WHY they do not use butyl tape for windshield installs. And I honestly I know they ever did in a Corvette as the actual adhesive. They used Thiokol.
Go to a class on this like I have and learn about SHEAR. And how the pinch weld of the frame needs to be prepped correctly to reduce the shear even when using urethane. How the metal is prepped and WHAT is applied on it effects how well the urethane bonds.
But....I guess people will use what they want and do it how they see fit. This is the difference between a professional and a DIY'er. A professional keeps pace it what the industry standard is due to being liable. Because the first time the windshield flies out of the car in an accident and someone gets hurt...the attorney will have a field day with that. Reason I mention this is because I know of one case where that DID happen...but thank God I was not the one who installed it incorrectly.
Do as you see fit. And I guess I will not mention that it is not wise to plug the side wall of your tire either....even though someone more than likely has done that with success for years and years.
Think smart and be safe....if not for yourself...for those innocent people your decisions can effect.
DUB
There is a reason WHY they do not use butyl tape for windshield installs. And I honestly I know they ever did in a Corvette as the actual adhesive. They used Thiokol.
Go to a class on this like I have and learn about SHEAR. And how the pinch weld of the frame needs to be prepped correctly to reduce the shear even when using urethane. How the metal is prepped and WHAT is applied on it effects how well the urethane bonds.
But....I guess people will use what they want and do it how they see fit. This is the difference between a professional and a DIY'er. A professional keeps pace it what the industry standard is due to being liable. Because the first time the windshield flies out of the car in an accident and someone gets hurt...the attorney will have a field day with that. Reason I mention this is because I know of one case where that DID happen...but thank God I was not the one who installed it incorrectly.
Do as you see fit. And I guess I will not mention that it is not wise to plug the side wall of your tire either....even though someone more than likely has done that with success for years and years.
Think smart and be safe....if not for yourself...for those innocent people your decisions can effect.
DUB
06-19-2018, 05:30 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
BTW, psw69 has a great little writeup on 69 windshield install that ends with "aint she purty". Ask psw69 for a copy or I can send you mine. I am pretty sure that psw69 did this great writeup.
IMHO, I have installed 2 windshields on 2 different 68's, about to do 2 more on a 72 and another 68. I used only the 3/8" butyl tape all around, no urethane. If you get the butyl tape kit, make sure you also use the primer included plus follow directions.
I started the tape at the bottom on the windshield frame, up the mating surface, across the top mating surface and back down the mating surface, then across the top edge of the mating surface at the bottom, then overlapping the starting point and cut off. I also ran another tape line around the bottom of the glass. So, I first put the tape on the windshield frame, and then placed the glass into proper position using glued in stops at the bottom and cut tape alignment pieces at each top edge. You have to press the glass in to get good contact and squish the tape in some from the sides to make sure you have a good seal all around.
All worked great, no leaks at the glass. However, both 68's were roadsters, so they leaked everywhere else ha! BUT not at the glass! You can dribble a water hose at the tape joint when you are done to make sure.
Now, I also suggest you do research, some say do not use only butyl tape, I believe that is all they used to use until the feds came out and mandated urethane. The concern is the glass might pop out in a severe accident, some report after looking at a number of accidents, it did not pop out and/or probably did not make any difference anyway. One good thing is the tape gives you a little flex ability, one 68 I had the new glass was installed with urethane and went over a railroad track and the glass cracked (we think). So I concluded this is a controversial subject with different viewpoints and without 100% conclusive results. So, again I suggest research and make your own decision. Some also believe the glass gives the windshield some structural integrity when installed with urethane, but I find this hard to believe.
Good luck and hope this might help.
IMHO, I have installed 2 windshields on 2 different 68's, about to do 2 more on a 72 and another 68. I used only the 3/8" butyl tape all around, no urethane. If you get the butyl tape kit, make sure you also use the primer included plus follow directions.
I started the tape at the bottom on the windshield frame, up the mating surface, across the top mating surface and back down the mating surface, then across the top edge of the mating surface at the bottom, then overlapping the starting point and cut off. I also ran another tape line around the bottom of the glass. So, I first put the tape on the windshield frame, and then placed the glass into proper position using glued in stops at the bottom and cut tape alignment pieces at each top edge. You have to press the glass in to get good contact and squish the tape in some from the sides to make sure you have a good seal all around.
All worked great, no leaks at the glass. However, both 68's were roadsters, so they leaked everywhere else ha!
BUT not at the glass! You can dribble a water hose at the tape joint when you are done to make sure.Now, I also suggest you do research, some say do not use only butyl tape, I believe that is all they used to use until the feds came out and mandated urethane. The concern is the glass might pop out in a severe accident, some report after looking at a number of accidents, it did not pop out and/or probably did not make any difference anyway. One good thing is the tape gives you a little flex ability, one 68 I had the new glass was installed with urethane and went over a railroad track and the glass cracked (we think). So I concluded this is a controversial subject with different viewpoints and without 100% conclusive results. So, again I suggest research and make your own decision. Some also believe the glass gives the windshield some structural integrity when installed with urethane, but I find this hard to believe.
Good luck and hope this might help.
I also like the flexible "cushioning" of the butyl - and used the urethane on top and bottom as an added security. I laid it down exactly as you did but I also had some rubber "blocks" that I placed in a few places to be SURE the windshield didn't "sink" deeper than what the trim needed to fit correctly. It worked out very well.
06-19-2018, 05:59 PM
#11
Race Director
Thread Starter
For those who care to under this issue a bit better.
There is a reason WHY they do not use butyl tape for windshield installs. And I honestly I know they ever did in a Corvette as the actual adhesive. They used Thiokol.
Go to a class on this like I have and learn about SHEAR. And how the pinch weld of the frame needs to be prepped correctly to reduce the shear even when using urethane. How the metal is prepped and WHAT is applied on it effects how well the urethane bonds.
But....I guess people will use what they want and do it how they see fit. This is the difference between a professional and a DIY'er. A professional keeps pace it what the industry standard is due to being liable. Because the first time the windshield flies out of the car in an accident and someone gets hurt...the attorney will have a field day with that. Reason I mention this is because I know of one case where that DID happen...but thank God I was not the one who installed it incorrectly.
Do as you see fit. And I guess I will not mention that it is not wise to plug the side wall of your tire either....even though someone more than likely has done that with success for years and years.
Think smart and be safe....if not for yourself...for those innocent people your decisions can effect.
DUB
There is a reason WHY they do not use butyl tape for windshield installs. And I honestly I know they ever did in a Corvette as the actual adhesive. They used Thiokol.
Go to a class on this like I have and learn about SHEAR. And how the pinch weld of the frame needs to be prepped correctly to reduce the shear even when using urethane. How the metal is prepped and WHAT is applied on it effects how well the urethane bonds.
But....I guess people will use what they want and do it how they see fit. This is the difference between a professional and a DIY'er. A professional keeps pace it what the industry standard is due to being liable. Because the first time the windshield flies out of the car in an accident and someone gets hurt...the attorney will have a field day with that. Reason I mention this is because I know of one case where that DID happen...but thank God I was not the one who installed it incorrectly.
Do as you see fit. And I guess I will not mention that it is not wise to plug the side wall of your tire either....even though someone more than likely has done that with success for years and years.
Think smart and be safe....if not for yourself...for those innocent people your decisions can effect.
DUB
So what do you think Thiokol is more like, the butyl tape or the urethane.
I have read what I could find is that it was somewhere in between.
Now if I was a lawyer for the guy who's car the windshield came out of I would state that the car was restored to t almost original using the same products that were available when the car was new. The car never had urethane so why would it be used on a car that it wasn't called for.
I also took classes and know what shear is. If my car is hit hard enough that the windshield comes out I probably will be the one going tru it because of the 45 year old seat belt design. Maybe we should upgrade that also.
Last edited by 540 vette; 06-19-2018 at 06:02 PM.
06-19-2018, 06:59 PM
#12
Race Director
So what do you think Thiokol is more like, the butyl tape or the urethane.
I have read what I could find is that it was somewhere in between.
Now if I was a lawyer for the guy who's car the windshield came out of I would state that the car was restored to t almost original using the same products that were available when the car was new. The car never had urethane so why would it be used on a car that it wasn't called for.
I also took classes and know what shear is. If my car is hit hard enough that the windshield comes out I probably will be the one going tru it because of the 45 year old seat belt design. Maybe we should upgrade that also.
I have read what I could find is that it was somewhere in between.
Now if I was a lawyer for the guy who's car the windshield came out of I would state that the car was restored to t almost original using the same products that were available when the car was new. The car never had urethane so why would it be used on a car that it wasn't called for.
I also took classes and know what shear is. If my car is hit hard enough that the windshield comes out I probably will be the one going tru it because of the 45 year old seat belt design. Maybe we should upgrade that also.
Dismiss this and make jokes about if your seal belts would work or not all you want to serve your decision. Fine by me. The facts remain.. Butyl tape is NOT urethane and NOT Thiokol. I have removed butyl tape and original Thiokol out of cars and they are no where near the same. I feel sorry for you if you feel that they are.
I thought I was trying to help someone who I always thought that worked on their car and wants to do it right...who clearly now seems to not. But I did come to realize you did not ask for any advice either. Because you already had it all figured out.
Like I wrote..I hope it all works out for you.
DUB
06-19-2018, 07:33 PM
#13
Race Director
Thread Starter
Clearly...you have made up your mind and I said about all I am going to say on this.
Dismiss this and make jokes about if your seal belts would work or not all you want to serve your decision. Fine by me. The facts remain.. Butyl tape is NOT urethane and NOT Thiokol. I have removed butyl tape and original Thiokol out of cars and they are no where near the same. I feel sorry for you if you feel that they are.
I thought I was trying to help someone who I always thought that worked on their car and wants to do it right...who clearly now seems to not. But I did come to realize you did not ask for any advice either. Because you already had it all figured out.
Like I wrote..I hope it all works out for you.
DUB
Dismiss this and make jokes about if your seal belts would work or not all you want to serve your decision. Fine by me. The facts remain.. Butyl tape is NOT urethane and NOT Thiokol. I have removed butyl tape and original Thiokol out of cars and they are no where near the same. I feel sorry for you if you feel that they are.
I thought I was trying to help someone who I always thought that worked on their car and wants to do it right...who clearly now seems to not. But I did come to realize you did not ask for any advice either. Because you already had it all figured out.
Like I wrote..I hope it all works out for you.
DUB
I have been using Butyl tape for 45 years and never had a problem. Why is urethane the right way...because you say it is the right way.
I am sure there are plenty of people on here that have installed there own windshield and used butyl. I don't think it is a right or wrong issue. It's what you feel comfortable with.
06-20-2018, 09:58 AM
#14
Race Director
I have been using Butyl tape for 45 years and never had a problem. Why is urethane the right way...because you say it is the right way.
I am sure there are plenty of people on here that have installed there own windshield and used butyl. I don't think it is a right or wrong issue. It's what you feel comfortable with.
I am sure there are plenty of people on here that have installed there own windshield and used butyl. I don't think it is a right or wrong issue. It's what you feel comfortable with.
Ask any respectable glass installing company who installs glass. Go ask them what they use and WHY they use it and you will see it is NOT my way. Its is an INDUSRTY STANDARD for reasons that you clearly do not care to even consider. Clearly I am wasting my time with you on this. SO I am writing this for those people who can consider the other option.
Then with your views/opinion on this. Go ahead and put your new windshield in your new Corvette with butyl tape. Talk about taking several steps backwards. Because it is. Try to get a reputable glass company that is licensed and insured to install your 2016 Corvette with butyl tape and see what you get for an answer. They WON' T do it. Or at least every major glass company in my city will not do it. As for the privately owned companies ...I cannot reply due to they may not follow the standards and do what you want to make a buck and provide no receipt ...thus no paper trail.
What you did 45 years ago maybe one thing...but using a product that you thought was correct way back then is NOT how it is today for those who keep up with what is required. And YES..I wrote 'required' because urethane IS required due to it is being used as an adhesive to further aid in being a part of the vehicles STRUCTURE. Because windshields are factored in as a part of structure.
And now you are going to come back with ..."Back then...they did not crash test vehicles. So it does not matter" . Then keep your bias ply tiers on your car due to that is what they came out with ORIGINALLY....and do not put in roller lifters and roller rocker arms on your engine.
Gosh almightly...so much for me trying to pass along things that many of you are clearly unaware of or unwilling to consider. Those that read this and take note...at least someone can understand where I am coming from.
3M can sell butyl tape...but knowing where to use it is something entirely different. I see you have found a place that works for you.
Use it if you want...I do not care if you can not understand all I was trying to do was help YOU out. But like I wrote...do did not ask for help.
So the next person you help out on the forum that all you are trying to do is help them and IMPROVE something that they are doing that YOU know can be better for them. Hopefully you get the same response and be told that YOUR WAY is not how they have been doing it for 45 years. But YET...you know a way that is actually better.
I am done here. I tried to HELP you with advice and shed some light on this situation...that is all I was trying to do...but I see that is just not going to happen.
DUB
Last edited by DUB; 06-20-2018 at 10:06 AM.
06-20-2018, 03:19 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
You keep saying you are "done here", yet you keep coming back whining about people not wanting to do something your way or offering another opinion.
You have obviously done a lot of stuff, as many of us have, and we are free to offer our suggestions based on our experiences. Sometimes they are appreciated, sometimes not! What people do with them is not up to us - it is up to them.
Chill!!
You have obviously done a lot of stuff, as many of us have, and we are free to offer our suggestions based on our experiences. Sometimes they are appreciated, sometimes not! What people do with them is not up to us - it is up to them.
Chill!!
06-20-2018, 06:52 PM
#16
Race Director
I have been using Butyl tape for 45 years and never had a problem. Why is urethane the right way...because you say it is the right way.
I am sure there are plenty of people on here that have installed there own windshield and used butyl. I don't think it is a right or wrong issue. It's what you feel comfortable with.
I am sure there are plenty of people on here that have installed there own windshield and used butyl. I don't think it is a right or wrong issue. It's what you feel comfortable with.
06-20-2018, 07:11 PM
#17
Race Director
YES...DIY'ers will not sue themselves. But if there actions effect others...that is where it changes.
DUB