The13Bats

Im very much considering ditching ps for manual, k.i.s.s.

Im not at that point in my build but i bet what is on my car will leak, i never have been a fan of the vette power assisted steering, how it feels or the way its designed ( if you like it fine, this is not a thread to debate that )

I have zero interest in rack or borg conversions, first is their entry prices then i find modding the collapsing safety column for borg hack job.

So the cats i want to hear from are those of you who had working power steering and ditched it for manual,
I havent driven a c3 with manual steering since the early 90s and that was daily i just do not recall it being hard to steer or park but recall road feel being better,

What are your impressions from your own experences?

Thanks
cheers
b

NONN37

I mean, the system is pretty simple as is. Ive had no issues. and stuff is relatively cheap/easy to repair vs more modern systems.
The car is way to heavy to turn at super slow speeds.
I have no problem with my old vws because there is no giant engine in the front and it has skinny tires. but ive had my ps pump stop working and reversing out of a parking spot in the corvette on 255s was heavy *** hell. felt like i was gonna break the spokes on the steering wheel.

Bikespace

Hi Bats. I made the switch (though, full-disclosure, my power steering actually failed, without leaking, but it did work for a while when I bought the car). I don't have thousands of miles on my conversion, yet. I also have a freshly rebuilt steering box from GTR1999 that I won't get a chance to install until this winter. So, my impressions are sparse, but generally positive. Parking is a bit of a chore, but driving is fine. Once a few improvements are made elsewhere on the car, I'll probably love it. I'll update with another report if this thread persists.

Favorable comparison to stock steering (last year in both cars):
It doesn't leak, and it ditches a few parts, leaving my car with a single fan belt.

Favorable comparison to Borgeson steering (in my wife's 79):
It's cheaper, uses all Corvette parts, and doesn't require the massive kludge of partially collapsing the steering column.

Favovrable comparison to the manual steering in a Corvair I used to AutoX:
Steering is much faster, and it's attached to a Corvette!

For my conversion, I bought the proper, rebuilt center link (from an earlier car, so it even came with a steering damper, which I didn't install), and a new manual pitman arm. My 80 doesn't have two sets of holes in the steering arms, so my car is a bit of a workout at low speed. I'm really looking forward getting Gary's steering box installed, and replacing the bearings in my steering column.

EDIT: Yup, that too. The proper manual center link is different than a steering valve with no PS fluid going through it, but steering force is similar.

The13Bats

A belt breaking or pump going out is not the same as manual steering not at all.
Manual cars have different rods and arm, even different points on the knuckles.

While i didnt want to debate ps in this thread i do want to be clear i dont have any big thing against stock power assisted c3 steering ( when its up to par wirking well )
i guess the design dates back to the 60s,
And my 81 went 90k miles no ps issues, but this thread is about something else, as my build theme isnt about creature comforts.

Thanks bike,
thats what im looking for, ill have fat front tires and a bb so i didnt think i could parallel park with one hand,
Im just trying to jog my memory, i just do not recall any hassles when i did dd a manual car.

If tina my wife was going to daily drive the car then maybe i would rethink ditching power steering, well not the stock set up i would go borg, as its so darn simple, but for me i dont justify the price.

i was told that if you move the rod ends to the other knuckle holes bumpsteer comes into play.

Richard454

I drove my 71 BB with manual steering for years(purchased in 81). It was a painful to park it. My girlfriend from high school- 30+ year memories- commented on what a pain the steering was - but she still loved that car!!!

Torqued Off

I ditched mine, and love it. It totally changed the car. My GTR1999 rebuilt steering box helped a lot, but going to manual made the car a blast. I had all rebuilt parts on the factory power steering, but it still had delay in control, lack of feel, center steering loss, etc. Now, tremendous road feedback and go cart feel. It made it fun to drive.

As for parking lot, .....it take some effort, but for me its irrelevant.

ezobens

redvetracr

actually you didn`t only 1968 C-3 cars used a steering damper 69+ up used a HD center link..no damper

doorgunner

I changed to manual steering on my '34 street truck because of leaks/repairs/etc. Once you relearn the tricks of parking it doesn't take a lot of effort to park. My '68 Vette has factory manual steering that is in great shape. I like how I can feel the road (in a good way), and no worries about leaks. (225 series tires on front). IF I had p/s in good shape I would keep it.

Bikespace

On the one hand, nothing is correct for my 80, as PS was standard starting in 1977.

But you are right, the 68 manual relay rod I have is 3/4" thick, with a few extra holes. The 80 PS relay rod is 7/8" thick, and presumably the "proper" 69-76 rod is the same nominal thickness. I never noticed that before!

ronarndt

I have manual steering in my 68 convert with NOM 454. I put a new stock steering gear in the car when I rebuilt the front suspension. Only disadvantage is parking, but if you keep the wheels moving even a little bit, the steering effort is not too bad. With the car dead stopped, you need to put some muscle into it with that 454 boat anchor over the wheels. Road feel and feed back when driving is good and as you already mentioned, there are fewer things to leak or go bad.

sassc3

removed power steering when the leaking started. like you, i thought k.i.s.s. BUT, it's going back in. way too slow to handle fish tails without the ps.

The13Bats

I wonder back in the day how many buyers of a then new c3 sans power steering ran back to the dealing crying their car is hard to park?

Thanks all for the feedback,

I got a chuckle from a few replies and cant help but think if your car is fish tailing a lot ps isnt the fix

I drove my manual steering car daily i simply do not recall parking being a hassle which seems is the only reason to have it,

I guess since its there and allegedly new ill try it but if it leaks its going bye bye

sassc3

funny...you're saying it like fish tailing is a bad thing

20mercury

I am with Doorgunner and Ronarndt,

I would rather have the manual steering. Had manual steering on my 68 454NOM and never had a problem, like Ronarndt says, get it rolling just a little and it steers no problem + I like the "road" feel. On my 72 also have manual steering, but still a project. And on my 68 project, I plan to yank the power steering off and install manual steering, no leaking hoses, more KISS as you say. I think it is all about what you are used to. I remember when ps first came out and generally available in all, we used to think the ps was too "sensitive" LOL's! And unless you are parallel parking on StCharles Ave in bumper to bumper traffic, I doubt you will ever notice the difference. My 2 cents!

And agree with the above, make sure you get the right "holes" on the steering knuckle.

Torqued Off

The other problem with factory power steering, there is a reality that there is center play that is just part of an old design that you do NOT have with manual steering. I had all rebuilt or new components on my 77 when I restored it, but it still had excessive center play for a sports car. I was very disappointed till I went to manual steering. The other major requirement is a steering box built like Gary Ramadei builds. I had ZERO play in the steering box, it was all in the power steering control valve. The pitman arm would move the valve, but the steering lagged, and I was not about to spend money on another control valve. Maybe a new control valve would have worked, but I was done with it.

The13Bats

My dads "ol buddy" was his avanti, it was a hodge podge, lark frame, dana rear, mercury brakes, corvette front end parts and corvette power assisted steering,
He hated it from day one, he had been the top dog go kart racer in the late 50s early 60s so knew steering and feel,
He was a navy plane tech and machinist so knew how to do stuff,
He rebuilt all the steering with new parts, telling me he wanted that starting point, his steering box was built and set correctly and still he hated the feel or lack of it,
So he ditched it all and installed a rack and pinion from i believe a k car of all things, loved it.

It seems many times some advocates of c3 ps will say when a person doesnt like the feel or the dead spot that the fault is in the parts and sure old c3 steering can be worn or worn out but i have owned and driven enough corvettes to know they all to some degree have that "spot".

derekderek

There is a newbie asking about adding power steering to a car he is considering. Mebbe you could swap parts and talk him through the install. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...b-to-a-c3.html

The13Bats

I saw that but i cant offer much help there,
My junk is bb not sure if it is all 100% corvette either and dont care it fits i dont want to shoot myself in the foot,

In my case the steering stuff was supposedly all new or rebuilt on the chassis i bought but its been sitting for years,
My guess is it will leak, so i then either tackle the leaks or just grab a manual rod and arm, in my case my steering knuckles only have one hole so i need those too but flipping and buying i could likely come out even or a bit ahead,
You know me i like to boast about building for cheap.

The shooting myself in the foot would be getting rid of my bb brackets etc before im 100% sure i dont want to putz with ps.

Paul Borowski

...probably about 15-17yrs ago, a friend of mine was converting his '67 400hp coupe to power steering and gave me the '67 centerlink, tierods and all. I installed it in a few hours on my '68 and the car was great(yeah, my original ps stuff was leaking fairly bad, but I lived with it). Car goes down the road so straight, I never had it aligned either. Yeah, slow, slow speeds take a little muscle, but to me it's not that bad. I love the simplicity of not having all that power steering junk. I never understood why GM never went with like a '64 Chevelle and up power steering gearbox. I think the early big Chevy's had that ram cylinder too if I'm thinking correctly. Friend had a beautiful White/Red interior '64 Impala and I remember it having that "power assist" cylinder on it.