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Horn Relay on a 1972 Vette

Old 11-16-2018, 10:37 PM
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mitch.1972vette
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Originally Posted by Techoca View Post
Get yourself one of Richard's headlight kits, you will be glad you did, super simple installation,very well engineered.
Eddy
I look forward to hearing back from Richard454. This is the latest copy of my wiring diagram for review.
I don't know if 14 awg wire is heavy enough for the vacuum pump. This is a link to the pump: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cvs-vp655
I actually think I'm going to run a relay on the vacuum pump. It may not be necessary but I would rather be safe than sorry. A wiring diagram was not in the package and I can't seem to find one online.
Correction - it will need a relay. I found it. https://www.cvrproducts.com/wp-conte...structions.pdf I will use the Dk. Blue wire as a trigger wire and provide another circuit for it.



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Old 11-20-2018, 04:40 PM
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If I'm using an auxiliary fuse block to rout a trigger wire to my fans, fuel pump, and vacuum pump, what would likely be the fuse amp from the box to the relay? The relay will ultimately be responsible for the power but what would be the minimum requirements for the fuse? I'm a little lost. I'm given the circuit breaker requirements from the breaker to the relay but not from the fuse block to the relay. Can anyone help a little? I know the fuse protects the wire - but - what are the fundamental needs of the trigger wire?
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Old 11-20-2018, 05:14 PM
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The trigger wire-

A standard Bosch type relay draws way less than ŻA

Depending on the circuit- I often try to use a negative trigger wire- - thus no fuse is required.

A 3A fuse (as close to the power source as possible) will handle the positive trigger wire - as 18GU is about the size I'd recommend.

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Old 11-20-2018, 06:59 PM
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For what this is worth.

When I am wirng up a relay and it is having power going to it from a 12 volt ignition switched source that I protect with a fuse. I add a wire to the wire that is fuse protected with a smaller gauge wire going to the coil of the relay so it is also protected as the diagram I modified from one of Richards diagrams.

This way of doing it is used by GM on many relays.

I generally do not do this when i am wiring up a relay that has CONSTANT 12 volts going to it. I make sure that terminal port 86 on the relay is gettign 12 volts from an ignition switched source so it is not live when the key is off. And that wire like Richard mentioned is protected with a 3amp fuse.



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Old 11-21-2018, 08:31 PM
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Thanks very much, gents.
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DUB View Post
For what this is worth.

When I am wirng up a relay and it is having power going to it from a 12 volt ignition switched source that I protect with a fuse. I add a wire to the wire that is fuse protected with a smaller gauge wire going to the coil of the relay so it is also protected as the diagram I modified from one of Richards diagrams.

This way of doing it is used by GM on many relays.

I generally do not do this when i am wiring up a relay that has CONSTANT 12 volts going to it. I make sure that terminal port 86 on the relay is gettign 12 volts from an ignition switched source so it is not live when the key is off. And that wire like Richard mentioned is protected with a 3amp fuse.



DUB
As a general rule, when you use a smaller gauge wire as a fusible link, do you drop maybe from 14 awg, to 18 awg, or would you be more conservative and select a 20 awg?
DUB / Richard / ? , how do you feel about these from Waytek: https://www.waytekwire.com/item/4656...nting-Bracket/
They use these circuit breakers: https://www.waytekwire.com/item/4643...-KA-Shortstop/
and: https://www.waytekwire.com/item/4684...-KA-Shortstop/
Thanks for any help you can offer.
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Old 11-29-2018, 03:06 AM
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I have also ordered the headlight actuator kit from Richard454 - soooo - soon, I will have the distinct honor of owning one of his custom-built kits with all the wonderful wiring upgrades. I will also be pairing it with this "headlight power upgrade harness 4 lamp 2 relay" kit from RedLine LumTronix (EH-002). Richard says it will work well with his kit. I'm actually purchasing the Redline kit from Ecklers: https://www.ecklerscorvette.com/prod...57149/image/0/
This is a look at the harness:
Attached Images
File Type: pdf
Redline LumTronix.pdf (768.4 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by mitch.1972vette; 11-29-2018 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mitch.1972vette View Post
As a general rule, when you use a smaller gauge wire as a fusible link, do you drop maybe from 14 awg, to 18 awg, or would you be more conservative and select a 20 awg?
DUB / Richard / ? , how do you feel about these from Waytek: https://www.waytekwire.com/item/46560/Pollak-52-249-7-Circuit-Breaker-Mounting-Bracket/
They use these circuit breakers: https://www.waytekwire.com/item/46430/EATON-s-Bussmann-Series-121B30-00M-KA-Shortstop/
and: https://www.waytekwire.com/item/46840/EATON-s-Bussmann-Series-122A40-00M-KA-Shortstop/
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Actually what you wrote, you wrote incorrectly. You do not use a smaller gauge WIRE as a fusible link. You actually use FUSIBLE LINK WIRE that is 4 gauges smaller than the wire you are attaching it to. So a 10 gauge wire will have a 16 gauge fusible link wire attached. Primary wire and fusible link wire are two totally different things. And if you do use a fusible link wire...do not make it longer than 6 inches as I have seen and read.....and whatever you do...DO NOT wrap it up into harness. leave it exposed.

As for your circuit breaker holder system It good due to you are protecting them and keeping them free of crap and in a nice place for future servicing if needed

I am quite sure you will be pleased with Richards headlight kit. He does nothing but top quality work so there should be not concerns about that at all.

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Old 11-29-2018, 03:08 PM
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Thank you DUB, again I'm gaining valuable information! I had no idea there were two different types of wire - I know, kinda lame on my part, but true. The notion to keep it outside the loom, again, is very valuable to me. May I add this information to my diagram? I would also like your thoughts on my choices for relays for my vacuum pump and the electric fuel pump. I will add a couple of pics to illustrate what I'm looking at. Hmmmm, can't upload pics. I don't-know? Here are a couple of links:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...1025/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-890023/overview/

Last edited by mitch.1972vette; 11-29-2018 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:01 PM
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If you want to try to show that the fusible link is not wrapped up in your wiring harness in your wiring diagram...have at it. But i think it would be kind of obvious and I am sure you will never forget that the fusible link is the only wire or wires not wrapped up in that specific area.

Those relays will work as needed BUT.....for me. It will all depend on where you install them.

I myself use a weather protected relays IF I have it installed out in the engine compartment where it can get wet. Just like GM does.

Or at least if i were to use a relay like you have chosen I would mount it in an box with cover to keep them clean.

I use relays like this: This relay is a 30 amp relay which will work fine about all possible applications.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-15-8240

Last edited by DUB; 11-29-2018 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:20 PM
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I use 40 or 60 amp water proof fan relays. A little overkill,, but they last forever... Local speed shop has them..
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Old 11-30-2018, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DUB View Post
If you want to try to show that the fusible link is not wrapped up in your wiring harness in your wiring diagram...have at it. But i think it would be kind of obvious and I am sure you will never forget that the fusible link is the only wire or wires not wrapped up in that specific area.

Those relays will work as needed BUT.....for me. It will all depend on where you install them.

I myself use a weather protected relays IF I have it installed out in the engine compartment where it can get wet. Just like GM does.

Or at least if i were to use a relay like you have chosen I would mount it in an box with cover to keep them clean.

I use relays like this: This relay is a 30 amp relay which will work fine about all possible applications.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-15-8240
Is there a cap to cover the female spades that attach to the relay that you provided a link to? I'm sorry DUB, I really don't know exactly what I'm looking at. I'm accustomed to seeing a relay with the leads on one end.

This is a pic of the little mounting cover that I made for my existing relays (2-fans, A/C and Vacuum pump). Please pardon my clutter, it is my desire to organize the clutter that's caused me to create this thread.
Thes connections were only to verify the components would run. I now have to organize everything and begin the rewiring process as well as looming everything.

Last edited by mitch.1972vette; 11-30-2018 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 11-30-2018, 11:35 AM
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YES...there is a special plug connector that has silicone seals on it to keep out water and crud.

The type of relay that I have shown you does take special terminals that lock into it and the seals are also specific to make it correct. Also a special tool to crimp the terminals is also needed. So if you are interested I can get that information to you.

AS for your location of the relay bank. I personally would not mount it . I would mount it around the corner from where your horn relay is and mount it on a plate like you have now so IF I needed access it I could easily remove it and have enough wire to pull it out for servicing. But that is just me. Trying to keep it way from heat if possible.... and kind of hide it also.

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Old 11-30-2018, 11:42 AM
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The yellow arrow is showing where I would put it myself.



I also more than likely would stud the mounting plate so when I installed it I would have threaded studs coming through the inner shirt so all I would need to do is put a flat washer and nut on it to hold it so it is an easy 'on and off' process. Then put a ball of 3M black strip caulk over the nut and exposed stud to make it so when I needed to take it back off for service I know the threads will not be messed up by simply peeling the ball of strip caulk off of it..

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Old 12-04-2018, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DUB View Post
YES...there is a special plug connector that has silicone seals on it to keep out water and crud.

The type of relay that I have shown you does take special terminals that lock into it and the seals are also specific to make it correct. Also a special tool to crimp the terminals is also needed. So if you are interested I can get that information to you.

AS for your location of the relay bank. I personally would not mount it . I would mount it around the corner from where your horn relay is and mount it on a plate like you have now so IF I needed access it I could easily remove it and have enough wire to pull it out for servicing. But that is just me. Trying to keep it way from heat if possible.... and kind of hide it also.

DUB

DUB
DUB,
Could you please steer me in the direction of the GM type relays as well as the crimping tool and spades necessary? I'm ready to make the purchase. Thanks.
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:36 PM
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I'm not sure I will have room to mount the four relays by or in the place of the horn relay, see the pic:

I may be able to get them near my vacuum pump but I will have to remove my louver to service them.


Any Thoughts?
I do like the idea of the stud mount for easy accessibility to the individual relays.
MAN - I just noticed the wear on my vacuum accumulator, I hope it not all the way through!

Last edited by mitch.1972vette; 12-04-2018 at 07:22 PM. Reason: Additional info
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:59 PM
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I will get back with you on the special connectors and terminals for that weather proof style relay.

I am sorry and I had a total brain fart when I posted the photo of the yellow arrow pointing to where I would put it. I FORGOT you have 1972 and with the vacuum storage tank in the way....yeah...that makes that area about impossible to do it there.

What are those relays controlling in the photos above???

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Old 12-04-2018, 07:03 PM
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Edited

Last edited by mitch.1972vette; 12-04-2018 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:04 PM
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2 Electric fans (40amp), A/C relay, and vacuum pump relay
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:58 PM
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I know it may seem crazy...but I would look at the back side area of the inner skirt on the RIGHT SIDE like where I have the yellow arrow pointing on the left side. You should have room to mount it there and any wire length is not going to be that much of a big deal to deal with.

Heck...you might be able to run the wires for the electric fans up the right side and also the relay for the A/c will be on that side. So you really only will need to extend the wiring for your vacuum pump.

Keep in mind you do not HAVE TO move this relay center if you do not want to. It was only a suggestion.

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