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1973 aluminum wheel option

 
Old 02-16-2019, 05:10 AM
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emccomas
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Default 1973 aluminum wheel option

Take a look at the attached window sticker for a 1973 Corvette convertible.

I have posed the question to NCRS (on their website) that, assuming this window sticker is original, is this sufficient documentation to accept the car with the correct 1973 wheels (part number 329381 with 329383 lug nuts) for NCRS judging.

Factory records show four cars produced with these wheels. Still trying to track those cars down.


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Old 02-16-2019, 12:36 PM
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what I find suspicious is only 4 were actually built with this option before Chevy recalled them and destroyed them, see Hemmings article below. Looking at the C3 registry for a car listed with a build date I find serial number 421987 being built on 4/30/73. Serial number 422717 was built on 5/3/73. Your number, 422397, would have been built between those two dates, so how did it actually have those wheels on it so late in production ?

https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hm...s/3708551.html

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Old 02-16-2019, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MelWff View Post
what I find suspicious is only 4 were actually built with this option before Chevy recalled them and destroyed them, see Hemmings article below. Looking at the C3 registry for a car listed with a build date I find serial number 421987 being built on 4/30/73. Serial number 422717 was built on 5/3/73. Your number, 422397, would have been built between those two dates, so how did it actually have those wheels on it so late in production ?

https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hm...s/3708551.html
Don't believe everything you read, especially from sources whose primary focus is generating income.

I have copies of the actual Chevrolet test reports for the 1973 YJ8 wheels, as well as copies of management decisions regarding those wheels. This GM paperwork from "back in the day" does not match up with the stories that have come out since then.

We all know of one car that was equipped with those wheels by Chevrolet. It now sits in the National Corvette Museum. The 1974 454 coupe that Zora Duntov took with him into retirement. I have actually removed the wheels from that cars and examined them; they are definitely 1973 YJ8 wheels, or three of them anyway. One wheel had to be replaced with a 1976 and later wheel because of a manufacturing defect.

So I can envision a situation where someone with "pull" (maybe a GM exec) can get the wheels installed on a 1973 Corvette, regardless of the date of manufacture. The wheels were in the parts system all through, and even past the 1973 model year. They were also available to the factory. Zora's 1974 Corvette had those wheels on it, why couldn't a late 1973 have them on it.

What would ya'll say if I told you that the Chevrolet lab test results do NOT specify porosity problems as the reason for cancelling the wheel option in 1973, which is the most often claimed reason for the cancellation.

And 422397 is not my car.

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Old 02-16-2019, 03:42 PM
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Hmmmm?
This is interesting jv.
I also would have thought this April build car was too late to have the aluminum wheels before GM cancelled them.
It would be interesting to know the serial number of Zora's car.
Do you have access to some additional info from the Chevy lab tests?
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Greg View Post
Hmmmm?
This is interesting jv.
I also would have thought this April build car was too late to have the aluminum wheels before GM cancelled them.
It would be interesting to know the serial number of Zora's car.
Do you have access to some additional info from the Chevy lab tests?
Greg
Zora's 74 is on display at the National Corvette Museum, so getting the VIN is pretty easy.

The wheels were cancelled BEFORE the start of 1973 production. The ban was lifted for a four day period in October by accident, but that does not mean that the four cars with the aluminum wheels were assembled during that period.

My theory is that, if someone had enough pull, they could get the wheels anytime during the 1973 model year. And we know that Zora got those wheels on his 74 when he retired.

Zora's 74. Zora sold this car to a Corvette enthusiast in Virginia for $100K. The buyer donated it to the museum before he passed away. Dan Gale coordinated the sale between Zora and the buyer.


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Old 02-16-2019, 05:56 PM
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I do not have any other lab reports other than the reports on the 1973 wheels. I asked Chevrolet about info on the wheels when I was writing my article for The Restorer back in 1990. I got lots of good info.

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Old 02-17-2019, 10:18 AM
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You are asking the question to the wrong people. NCRS is the only place to get an answer.

The NCRS likes to use the expression "Normative practice". Theoretically, that means that cars that were originally built with characteristics that fall outside "normative practice" will have points deducted even if the car in question actually was originally built that way. Without sufficient documentation that convinces the judge on the field that day, you will not get the points. If you cant find enough evidence to convince them, you would need to "correct" anything original that deviates from the "normative practice" in order to be awarded the points.

I have a 1980 L-82 I bought when it was about 10 years old. It was built about 2 weeks before the end of 1980 production. Car was original and largely untouched when I got it. Still had its original tires at that time. 1980 is "supposed" to have a black air cleaner lid. Mine came with a (correct for 1981) factory chrome air cleaner lid. I can't prove it is original to the car and NCRS would likely deduct points unless I remove it and put the "correct" black air cleaner lid on it. We are not going to have it judged but I do have a spare black lid if anyone ever wants to "correct" it some day in the future.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:02 PM
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what does the 1973-1974 NCRS Technical Information Manual & Judging Guide say about wheels?
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MelWff View Post
what does the 1973-1974 NCRS Technical Information Manual & Judging Guide say about wheels?
Well, I am actually in a pretty good position to answer that question since I am part of the team that just finished the latest revisions to the 1973-1974 NCRS Judging Manual.

The problem is that the issue of the YJ8 wheels is somewhat nebulous. The manual says that any 1973 car presented for judging with the YJ8 wheels installed must have appropriate documentation that the wheels were factory installed on that car (I am paraphrasing here).

My question, which I did ask NCRS about, is what constitutes "appropriate documentation".

I did get an answer that I am OK with.

The final decision on appropriate documentation will be with the judging team leader. A window sticker might be questionable. A build sheet authenticated by NCRS, and clearly listed the YJ8 option without any changes / adjustments to it is probably the best documentation.

One of the 73-74 team members has seen a 1973 build sheet with the YJ8 option computer printed on it, but the YJ8 part was crossed out and the letters "AZ" were written next to it. That clearly indicates that the car was originally ordered with the YJ8 option, but that option was removed and replaced with the rally wheels (wheel code AZ).

On a related note, I have seen a 1973 build sheet with the exterior color computer printed as "SPEC" (for Special), and the word "Black" hand written on the build sheet. That was considered sufficient documentation for a black 1973 Corvette.

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Old 02-17-2019, 01:41 PM
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The "window sticker" document shown at the start of this thread does NOT appear to be an original vintage document. It appears to be a reproduction; and those will having anything in that list which the owner would like to show on it (owner input is what gets printed).
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 7T1vette View Post
The "window sticker" document shown at the start of this thread does NOT appear to be an original vintage document. It appears to be a reproduction; and those will having anything in that list which the owner would like to show on it (owner input is what gets printed).
And you are correct. 422397 is a 73 convertible that I used to own. I sold it maybe 20 years ago. But while I owned it I ordered a reproduction window sticker and I had them add the YJ8 option to the list because I could.
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Old 02-17-2019, 02:21 PM
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I'm still with you on this one jv. It would be great to track down any one of the four cars that originally came with the YJ8 option. A real needle in a haystack kind of search but fun none the less, and a real thrill if you happen to find one. Heck, one of them could be sitting in my garage right now but the tank sticker is long gone.
Personally, I'd still like to find the single 1977 in Corvette Chartreuse!
G.

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Old 03-27-2019, 12:52 AM
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Hey Greg,

That 1977 Chartreuse car is likely crushed. It was at the GM Desert Proving Grounds in Mesa, Arizona. Engineers considered the car a "Component Car" because it came down the line slowly and was practically hand built to see if the 'components' would fit properly. The reason it came down the line slowly? It was 1977 VIN 00001.

The car was an L48 automatic.

This information is in the August 1977 Vette Vues magazine. See attached photo. The green is washed out in the Arizona sun.

The short article quotes a Mr. Scott Leon of Phoenix who was an Engineering Technician at GM Desert Proving Grounds. Mr. Leon states that "this green beast is a test car and I doubt if it'll ever be sold to a private owner."

I would love to spend a month in Mesa Arizona junk yards to see if I could find a piece of 1977 00001 !! Just having the trim tag would be mind blowing.

I did a crazy thing and found an online paint supply who had the WA4915 formula so I ordered a rattle can. I sprayed a 1977 fuel door and mounted an emblem. It is an amazing color.

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Old 03-27-2019, 12:38 PM
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GoGo,
Funny you bring this up. I have a copy of that Vette-Vues magazine from August 1977 too. I did the same thing a few years ago and got the exact same color match as you did. I also think it would have been a terrific color on the late C3's.
I started a thread on this subject last month. Here's the link to it:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...cars-here.html

Greg

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Old 03-27-2019, 01:14 PM
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From a Ditzler page on the internet


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Old 03-27-2019, 02:15 PM
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Default x2 FAKE STICKER

Originally Posted by 7T1vette View Post
The "window sticker" document shown at the start of this thread does NOT appear to be an original vintage document. It appears to be a reproduction; and those will having anything in that list which the owner would like to show on it (owner input is what gets printed).
This is EXACTLY what I thought in the first NANO-SECOND..... 'reproduction' window sticker.
1. window stickers were just that...they were STUCK to the window....no evidence of that.
2. 46 year old window sticker that looks like it was made this morning.
3. Don't believe such 'documentation'
4. What does the TANK STICKER SAY?

unka
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Old 03-27-2019, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by L-46man View Post
This is EXACTLY what I thought in the first NANO-SECOND..... 'reproduction' window sticker.
1. window stickers were just that...they were STUCK to the window....no evidence of that.
2. 46 year old window sticker that looks like it was made this morning.
3. Don't believe such 'documentation'
4. What does the TANK STICKER SAY?

unka
Read post #11 carefully
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Old 03-27-2019, 04:13 PM
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Dear JV04.....more importantly is your original post and I quote;

assuming this window sticker is original.

By the time I read thru the tread and the time delay....I concluded (rightly)....FAKE!

Good discussion tho....I have a set of the second production run on my 69 now.

cheers.

unkahal
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Old 03-27-2019, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by L-46man View Post
Dear JV04.....more importantly is your original post and I quote;

assuming this window sticker is original.

By the time I read thru the tread and the time delay....I concluded (rightly)....FAKE!

Good discussion tho....I have a set of the second production run on my 69 now.

cheers.


unkahal
But you took the

assuming this window sticker is original.

out of context, which changed it's meaning entirely

Now, putting it back into context...

assuming this window sticker is original, is this sufficient documentation to accept the car with the correct 1973 wheels.

The question I am asking is simple...is a window sticker that is assumed / determined to be original, AND has the YJ8 option listed on it, sufficient documentation to satisfy the NCRS judges that the car
is OK to be displayed with the YJ8 wheels without a deduction for originality.

I recently helped revise the 1973-1974 NCRS Judging Manual, and I wanted to know what the judges would accept as sufficient documentation for a YJ8 equipped car.
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Old 03-27-2019, 04:37 PM
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Ok...JV04....perhaps I'm being thick here.

Can I flip the question on it's back for a second?

If one had a window sticker that was REAL and you no longer have original correct vintage date coded and stamped YJ8's on your car, but you put REPLACEMENT YJ8's, should that be acceptable to NCRS???? my vote, yes!

I realize the there are verifiable production castings and stamping on the 'lost YJ8's'????

Whew....NCRS needs a hobby! lol wink!

LOL.

I'm at a car show...with the '82CE this time....old GEEZER comes up with books and papers and says "I'm a NCRS Judge"...(.he's got the hat and the T-shirt) and says..".Do you want me to Judge your Car....I know 82CE's really well." Me; "Sure, the more the merrier". Looks at the car for 45 minutes, flipping through books.
Long story short.....missed 27 things that I changed myself.... Including the massive radiator!

Then asks me to JOIN......hardly!

Waste of time!

Unkahal
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