army

I really like Leno's utube videos. I stream them out in my garage sometimes while I'm working on stuff. Lots of interesting stuff and he seems to have his head on straight. His recent Hagerty article on Bugatti clones seems bang on for discussions of replicating chrome bumper cars using a 73 to 77 model. The 68-72's didn't have the big back window so I didn't include the 78 and up cars in the context of 'clones'. I think the newer C3's look really good with the conversion too though. The owners of original Bugatti's and the clubs don't want to see them cloned and don't accept them. But Leno thinks its a shame to deny enthusiasts the car they want even if they can't afford a 'real one'. I couldn't agree more. The Dynacorp Camaros and Mustangs are up against the same thing.

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...-true-replicas

Easy Mike

The way I see it, if you're not driving a real one you don't have the car you want.

F22

I'm ok with clones, tributes and reproductions, as long as the owner is honest about what it is. If they're not, then I have a problem with that. Why? Because real Shelby Mustangs (at least the early ones) were born in Los Angeles at Carrol Shelby's facility and they have the fender and dash VIN to prove it. Another great example is how many people slap SS badges on any '66-'72 Chevelle and try to represent them as the real deal, but nearly all of them lack any kind of interior detail, suspension work, the 12 bolt rear end or even the engine! It's very easy to slap the badges on the exterior, but most real car guys know right off the bat, that it's not real and that diminishes their view (at least mine, IMHO) of what it represents. I'd rather see a built-to-the-hilt Chevelle or Malibu that doesn't have an SS badge on it (and we have just such a car locally) and I respect that, far more, than the other side of the coin.

vettebuyer6369

Completely agree.

We aren’t talking about Bugattis here. If you are going to take an $8-10k car and spend a couple grand hacking it up and making it look like the model you want, why not spend the $12-$15k on a real car with no excuses? It makes absolutely no sense to me. Especially seeing how soft the chrome bumper coupe market is. There’s no good reason not to just buy a real car.

I get why kids buy cheap Lambo Kit Cars because they cant afford a real car. But I don’t understand looking at the time and money spent on modifying a car to look like a car a few years older. Not to mention it’s got to be worth less than either model when you are done.

Rescue Rogers

I'm all for upgrading a 73 to 82 car to a chrome bumper car. I could care less about what it was. That's what hotrodding is all about. Making something into what you want. Theres lots of different types of people in c3 collecting
Traditionalists
Purists
Racers
Hotrodders.

I'm a bit of a traditional hotrodder. I try to stay somewhat corvette stock like gauges and interior stuff but I still want to make it mine. Like 69 side exhaust, l88 hood , 17 inch rims, etc

C3_DH

I couldn't have said it better. Early on I remember seeing this guy at a car show... he had this UGLY dodge van. All he had really done was put some different door lock ***** on, added some different hubcaps, just little things. But to hear him talk about it was awesome. The guy thought he had created a masterpiece. To me, that is the essence.... make it whatever you want. I wouldn't personally have a clone, but there are a bazillion reasons as to why someone can't afford one, or any number for other reasons. I keep my cars very stock - to a point. I find being too traditionalist seems to make my hobby too binding, so I do what I want, and try to appreciate whatever my fellow car peeps are proud of... I know, kinda wishy washy - still, if a clone works for you, I'm good....

Greg

Sorry, Im in the "real deal" camp too.
There are so many Auburn Boatail Speedster kit cars out there now, I'm sure they out number the originals.
Magnum just wouldn't have been as cool in a Fiero 308 kit car.

BarryB72

If any one has a 69 z-28 clone with a DZ block in it that they don't value please call me.

fastimes

Not a fan of the clone myself. I would rather have a clean and correct Malibu than something made into a Chevelle SS "Tribute".

To each his own I guess

L-46man

I agree with the majority...by all means 'clone' if you will...BUT DISCLOSE IT IN BOLD PRINT, UP FRONT! Then it's just 'caveat emptor'.

Every Corvette clone, messed up, wet dream, just make my original numbers matching cars worth more! (not selling them, so that, in fact is MOOT!)

I remember a few years ago looking at a 69 GTO JUDGE.....the guy who bought it and subsequently sold it DID NOT KNOW that it was not a '242' car....so when I offered him 'clone' pricing he got all sniffy!

You can buy 'Cobras' all day long for $20-30 k....and they register them as 1965 Cobras...that is DISHONEST...even tho you know in the first nano-second.

UNKAHAL

ntfday

Your money, your car do as you wish. I don't have to like or dislike. As long as it's safe for the road. If all you're doing is buying a car to sell, you're not an enthusiast, you're a used car salesman.

prostreet68

I agree with the OP but then again I build things I want because the completed ones are pretty expensive so starting with a distressed one I can build up over time gets me what I want. Well most of the time. The C2 project cars still bring stupid money. Haha

BarryB72

I would definitely prefer a car's appearance/engine to match its VIN if the VIN clearly identifies how the car was built but I'm not as picky on non-Corvettes.

Since I'm not a Camaro or Chevelle guy I probably don't care as much about how the factory built those cars because the factory built the car to meet the buyer's order form and I think I could justify a lot by saying I am simply correcting the mistakes the original owner made.

BarryB72

Just realized - I've cloned my car to look like a corvette with tilt and white letter tires.

Dale427

Jay is talking about very rare and expensive cars that are unattainable to most enthusiasts.

There are plenty of nice, reasonably priced 68-72s available. Factoring in the cost of conversion all you've accomplished is ruin a nice 73-82 and created a comical BubbaFrankenVette that costs way more than a decent 68-72.

v2racing

I'm of the opinion that it is your car, do whatever makes you happy and who cares what other people think. That is as long as you don't try and sell it for what it isn't, that's fraud.

Mike

F22

VIN 136 = Chevelle/Malibu. VIN 138 = Real Deal Super Sport.

army

I think it's more like I don't have the car you want Mike. I could buy one tomorrow but I don't actually want a chromie. I already have the Corvette I prefer. I'd also like to shorten it up on both ends but retain the FG bumper style. The 5 mph bumper stuff would go for a ride to the scrapyard. My insurer doesn't care. I just have to change the classification from 'original' to 'modified' and the cost goes up about $300 a year. I may do it eventually but I have more than one toy that wants money and time spent on it so it's not a priority right now. This is what I have in mind on the front.


Just so we're clear, I don't personally hack stuff up. When I do mods they're done properly. As for the cost there's a lot more to it than what something will sell for. How much can somebody sell their vacation cruise for when they get back home?

F22

I had to disown my own brother, because of this issue. He got a huge $35K bonus from his company and got total OCD over getting vintage muscle, so I offered to help him, as he's totally inept, mechanically and knowledge wise about cars. He wanted a 60's to 1970 Mustang, so I started looking on CL. I'm good at finding stuff and sniffing out what's been loved and what's been hacked, neglected or beat up in general. I found two 1970 Mustang Mach 1's locally for $30K to $35K. Each was very well kept, 351C 4V, Toploader, and one had the Shaker Hood. Meanwhile, he was looking on line and found a classic car dealer selling a 1968 Shelby GT 350 Clone for $65K! It looked like the real thing body wise, with the correct front fenders, front end and wheels. Everything was there. but unless I inspect it, I was reluctant, but he had to have it, so he brought it.

It came via auto transport from the East Coast and looking at it, immediately I spotted wiring problems, sloppy wiring problems. And the aftermarket ignition wasn't quite working right, the rear tail lights were a total wiring mess, with black tape everywhere. I told him, he should represent it as a clone or tribute, but he maintained that if nobody asked, then he'd pretend and show it off as the real thing. He takes it to car shows and covers up the VIN with a Shelby pamphlet. At one point, he let me take it for a drive. He lives in an affluent part of the city and we drove down tree lined lanes. It drove OK, for a 289 powered Mustang with a C4 transmission and then we had to turn around. At the big intersection, across the corner, there was a 1969 Charger, black, with American Racing wheels, waiting on the light. Almost a duplicate of the Vin Diesel car. So when the arrow turned green, I flipped the wheel over and gave the car some gas. Then, the front suspension totally collapsed about 8" to the left! It felt like somebody broadsided the car. He yelled, "You can't do that, to this car, you're going to hurt it!". I yelled back, that you should be able to kick out a Honda Accord on a U-Turn without the suspension collapsing and that this thing was totally dangerous to drive. And this is a $65K Mustang. He was sorely insulted.

This same brother, over the years, totally hated on my '74 Corvette, with numerous insults, telling me and my wife many times I should sell it, brown is the color of $hit, take the race decals off the back glass and on and on. So I put up with that for a long time, but after he got this POS Mustang, that also needed a transmission rebuild and me helping him source out a reliable shop to do the front suspension, he decided that he was a real car guy and that he could start talking trash about other people's rides. Everything needed a "$10,000" paint job. Patina was to be looked down on as "People are attracted to shiny objects". I got tired of it, as a life long car guy, who built mine lovingly over the last seven years and worked on a whole lot of other vintage cars at the shop I had for five years, between marriages. I told him, he had no right to judge other people's rides, especially obvious projects in works, that I could tell have a lot of work into them, but didn't have a $10K paint job. I disowned the SOB. He's put another $20K into this car, putting the latest laser LED headlights that look like they came off a flying saucer, a huge Japanese electric fan system that's louder than the engine, EFI and tons of other junk on it. Now he's up to $85K on a fake Shelby Mustang, that wasn't born that way. Good for him and good luck. For $85K, I could've got him a hell of a lot more than a 289 with a Pinto C4 trans. The $35K Mach 1's were both Top Loader 351C cars and as we all know, are brutally fast. Hell, I found for $41K a Torino GT, 429 Super Cobra Jet car, with the drag pack and a four speed. For about what he spent for that POS, he could've got a '66 Chevelle SS, with the 396, a far burlier, faster and bad *** machine, but OCD is his thing.

Our last email, he said I was jealous and wish I had his car. I had to laugh. I wouldn't trade my '74 for anything. She's a rowdy street bitch and not some pretty pretend car with stripes. She's faded, jaded and still sports the Iron Cross hanging from the rear view mirror when I got her. One day, he'll get found out, by the real Shelby guys, when they invite him to join the club and will want to see the fender and dash VIN's from Shelby America.

How Are You

Brother Mike makes sense!