Have y'all seen this place? I found some good info here, it may or may not be of interest to you, depending on what levels of knowledge you already have....

http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...?CategoryID=17

John

 

Turtlevette and all. Great thread. I'm looking forward to my first track days at Road America this summer. A question about your statement that you see Corvettes using 315 tires at all four corners. I have tried some calculations. If that was a 315x50x15, the section width would be around 12.4" and the diameter would be 27.4" The 27.4", I believe is the original diameter for C3 while the 12.4" is the section width of the rear tires used on the ZR1. This would be an awesome tire. I assume that you would need 9.5" wheels to run 315's. I assume you also need flares to run 315's? Thanks.

 

While reading this thread, it took me back over a racing career that spanned many years and several Corvettes. From a 66 BB roadster (A production) to an 85 SB SCCA GT-1 Corvette I too had a lot of fun. Starting with auto-X, drag racing, and finally SCCA road racing. Ended up qualifying for the runoffs in Atlanta and finishing in the top 10 in GT-1.

Listening to many of you modifying your cars and trying to go faster and learn the engineering and driving techniques a couple of thoughts hit me:

First - Basically, even the highly modified cars are heavy, over 2800 lbs. When you loose control at any speed, you are going to hit someting real hard (ask me how I know that). You want to make sure that your safety equipment is up to specs and you didn't spend all your money on "Go Fast" stuff. Roll bars/Cages, Helmets and harnesses, fire extinguisher systems should be the FIRST thing you go for, not the last. The will always make more cars but if you injure yourself, you may not be able to "Play" again.

Second - Why modify a nice street car. It will always be a nice street car until it is a butchered hybred. Those cars are neigher fish nor foul. They are on the edge of streetable and will always be slower than a real race car. Driving fast vs driving as fast as the car will go are two different things. Why not look for an old C3 race car and then modify it to make it legal for your racing class. It will have all the mods for safety and light wt. You just need to install enough equipment/parts to meet the regulation. It will probably be cheaper in the long run and much safer to boot. Plus, if you have to throw the keys in the front seat and walk away, you can still walk away!

Finally, when it comes to learning to drive a race car, why not invest in a driving school! You will learn in 3-4 days from pro instructors what it might take 5 yrs and many $$$$ in your own car as you hunt and peck to find wisdom and skill. In the long run, the money is the same and it might save you some real pain.

A highly tuned chassis (balanced handling and stout brakes) and a skilled driver will overcome lots of HP any time. HP is good if you have it, but too many use it as a crutch and then get in over their heads during braking or in the corner.

Have fun, be safe and keep the posts coming. The trip down memory lane is wonderful.

Bob

 

I was talking about the C4s and C5s running 315/35/17 or 335/30/17 or 18s

And you will need 11 or 12" rims to run tires that wide. To get out there and even think of keeping up with the new vetts would require us to run at least as much rubber as they are running. I've upgraded to 275/40/17 on 9" steel rims and it makes a huge difference but its still a skinny tire compared to the aforementined.

If you go with a 5" backspace you could get away with running a mild flare.

I think trying to run 15" tires is just an excercise in.

Remember tires are the #1 most important thing to upgrade.

I just don't know if i'm ever gonna get serious enough to get there.

A dedicated race car needs a trailer and that kicks the game up a huge notch, so that is not automatically the answer.

 

bump so it don't go to archive.

so i've got a Rodeck aluminum 400 block and 80-82 aluminum rear collecting dust waiting to go in someday.

i need to weigh it and see where i'm at.

 

It will take more than just running big tires. New cars are coming stock with 400 net horsepower, good aero and great brakes. A '70 LT-1 is maybe what, 320 net? And C3's are bricks through the air. Slow autocrossers in C5's can easily be fast on a roadcourse.

On a smaller track that emphasizes handling, tires will get us there and having some horsepower helps. At a track with any sort of length to the straights, we can't keep up.

Depends on the tires.

 

69autoXr:

Just for kicks, where was that track picture taken?

 

Good post, Bob. A lot of this echoes an article I wrote years ago about buying vintage race cars.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/D.../vint_buy.html

Since apparently some of these groups are requiring "street" cars, it is probably easier to make an old racer street legal rather than a street car a race car. Some lights, a horn, and maybe mufflers if required.

And with some of the vintage races being more interested in high-dollar restoration than so many club racers from the '70s, they can still pick a lot of those up relatively cheap. A lot cheaper than modifying their street car and possibly wadding it up.

And you are right on about the difference between the two. Years ago, a friend had a '67 race car. It was more a street car with a cage, and enough stuff to be SCCA legal. One weekend, we shared my '66 for an enduro. He remarked how he couldn't believe the difference between the two cars. His tended to plow through the corners where I had more oversteer dialed in to get around the corners with less hassle.

When you drove his, it was like most Corvettes with open exhaust and the noise of a bare interior. When you drove mine, the vibrations ran right up your spine from everything being solid and no rubber anywhere.

In another thread, many are worried about insurance on their cars if they have a problem. If they got a purposely built race car, that wouldn't be an issue.

And best of all, they could make the next step. Instead of tooling around going fast on the straights and parading around the corners, they could actually pass in the corners and discover the real thrill of going to the limit.

So are you at Parks or Scott? Did you spend much time at MAR?

 

If you mean my avatar, it's at an autocross.

If you mean the ones in my gallery here, they're at Waterford Hills and Gingerman in Michigan.

 

I miss Gingerman. Prior to moving south from Indiana a couple years ago, I used to haul my '69BB and '84turbo up there two or three times a month for the open track sessions. It's a fun track, well maintained, very reasonable entry fee, and enough session time to put a ton of miles on the car. The owner and staff there were always very friendly and accomodating. It's one of the things I miss the most since the move.

 

Yeah, I really like Gingerman. It's very safe too. Waterford is fun and I have the most laps there, but it's less forgiving if you go off.

Ever get up to Grattan? Now that is a real driver's track. Every corner is blind, off-camber, or both; there's alot of elevation change, a jump, and a half mile straight. There's a quote on a website about Grattan:

"Some competitors claim that Grattan was designed by an individual who had a clear understanding of the limits of racing cars and a pathological hatred of racing car drivers."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...=grattan&hl=en

 

TTT

Just realized what an idiot I was

 

Most of us already knew that.

What specifically triggered the realization?

I will hopefully be getting to 2 new (for me) tracks this season. Watkins Glen and Calabogie Canada

 

Read my post from the first few pages

Hopefully I will be running a few autocrosses this year. Getting my license in 25 days. Then I'll tow the car to a few races.

 

Cool, dude! Be careful and blah blah blah.....

 

I actually graduated from Parks in 71. I teach aviation maintenance (A&P) at the local community college. Got that gig after being in the airlines for 25 yrs.

I went to MAR on several occasions to watch pro-races. Actually watched John Greenwood run an IMSA race there once.

Only ran MAR as a Corvette club speed event. Had a 66 BB roadster. Was an old SCCA BP car that I bought and converted for the CC racing events. Wish I still had that one as it was low dollar and a whole lot of fun to drive.

Bob

 

Dateline; Mexico Juan Pablo Montoya proved today that early apexing a corner can prove to be profitable, provided there's another car in front of you to assist in your braking. By punting the car in front, you can affectivly slow enough to then pass the spinning wreck you just caused! Some may recall an iconic God from Winston Cup days who used this tactic at every available opportunity.

 

You talkin' about Grattan, MI, just up the road from Grand Rapids? If so, have they moved turn 1 back or put a chicane in on its approach? It used to have too small of a gravel trap in front of an embankment that almost cost a good friend's life at a Barber FD2000 race I ran in back in 1996.

Anyway, simply diabolical course, even more challenging in the wet! The words "off-camber" and "blind" don't begin to describe it. In the formula cars, you could go honking full song into that jump you mentioned, and then "crash brake" for the right hander immediately after touchdown. No place for the faint of heart. When can I go back?

 

holy crap! this thread is still alive???
this has to be going on some kind of record for a non-sticky thread.
what the hell.
i almost bought a mustang at a track day a few years ago
truer words are rarely spoken on this forum. drive a heavy, underpowered, evil-handling car fast and you can drive anything fast.

 

Yup, that's the place! The first time I ran there was in pouring rain. Turn one is largely unchanged, but I think that they've pushed the berm back significantly toward the road and added more gravel trap area. No chicane though, so you're still moving pretty fast into the braking zone. We had one car go off at turn one last year, but he stopped in the gravel. A friend twisted up his '69 at turn one pretty badly back in the 80's. I myself went off at one backwards when I screwed up a downshift.

NCCC is running a test and tune and Time Trials at Grattan October 14, preceded by the same event types at Gingerman the day before. The tracks aren't very far apart, so come up for the weekend and hit both tracks.