Continuing saga update aluminum radiator install
08-17-2006, 10:56 PM
#21
Drifting
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by DR.Jay
I just hope you get the problem solved, and have a car you can enjoy. In the mean time I will keep watching as the saga unfolds. Just think cooler weather is a few months away, and you won't need the A/C. I think you should check the oil temp with a analoge gauge if you haven't done so already. That temp seems high, but I could be totally wrong.
ESU
gonna grab a beer and head to bed, maybe the wife will have sympathy on me lol.
Last edited by ESU; 08-17-2006 at 11:00 PM.
08-17-2006, 11:02 PM
#22
Originally Posted by ESU
I can actually hear my fan spinning up to about 2800 then it winds out and I no longer hear it. Does this mean its now freewheeling? Funny how my problem crops up at 3000 rpms just when I can no longer hear mine spinning,
ESU
ESU
Rich
08-17-2006, 11:31 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
This topic has been on my mind since I've been dealaing with my own cooling problems which I think I've solved. My problem now is I think I've overcooled when on the highway and have been trying to find a way to cool a little better in heavy stop and go traffic with the ac on. I'll throw out a few thoughts which may or may be helpful to you.
You mentioned a Summit high flow thermostat...I looked it up on their site and I wonder if it flows as well as a Robershaw / Mr Gasket. Instlallinig the Mr Gasket brand of high flow stat DRAMATICALLY reduced my temperatures. It may be worth a try. Secondly, there are some different brands of fan clutches...is yours really a heavy duty? I've been spending some time on the Hayden web site trying to find a way to get a heavy duty fan clutch on my 71 to improve low speed cooling. According to their site the HD clutch turns at a faster speed than their standard thermal clutch. Its easy for any company to throw the word "heavy duty" on their box, but is it really a quality brand. http://www.haydenauto.com/index.htm
Hope this info is helpful.
You mentioned a Summit high flow thermostat...I looked it up on their site and I wonder if it flows as well as a Robershaw / Mr Gasket. Instlallinig the Mr Gasket brand of high flow stat DRAMATICALLY reduced my temperatures. It may be worth a try. Secondly, there are some different brands of fan clutches...is yours really a heavy duty? I've been spending some time on the Hayden web site trying to find a way to get a heavy duty fan clutch on my 71 to improve low speed cooling. According to their site the HD clutch turns at a faster speed than their standard thermal clutch. Its easy for any company to throw the word "heavy duty" on their box, but is it really a quality brand. http://www.haydenauto.com/index.htm
Hope this info is helpful.
08-18-2006, 12:03 AM
#24
Burning Brakes
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This is not meant to hijack your thread.I have a 74r with the largest custom rad that can fit in the space,no shrouds,no seals no mech fan.it has an oil cooler rad and a trans cooler rad stacked in front of it at the bottom,has the standard stock chin spoiler only.My 383 and custom long tube headers make fierce underhood temps,i have a single electric fan puller 14" rated at 3400 cfm....i have no engine temp issues at all even when autocrossing,none in stop/start traffic even on 100* days....i have a standard 180 thermo with manual override switch....i do not have aircon....but as tom said earlier there is no obvious reason for you to have these problems......sorry i don't have an immediate answer,but there must be one....john
Last edited by jdunne; 08-20-2006 at 06:34 PM.
08-18-2006, 12:06 AM
#26
Originally Posted by PaulH
This topic has been on my mind since I've been dealaing with my own cooling problems which I think I've solved. My problem now is I think I've overcooled when on the highway and have been trying to find a way to cool a little better in heavy stop and go traffic with the ac on. I'll throw out a few thoughts which may or may be helpful to you.
You mentioned a Summit high flow thermostat...I looked it up on their site and I wonder if it flows as well as a Robershaw / Mr Gasket. Instlallinig the Mr Gasket brand of high flow stat DRAMATICALLY reduced my temperatures. It may be worth a try. Secondly, there are some different brands of fan clutches...is yours really a heavy duty? I've been spending some time on the Hayden web site trying to find a way to get a heavy duty fan clutch on my 71 to improve low speed cooling. According to their site the HD clutch turns at a faster speed than their standard thermal clutch. Its easy for any company to throw the word "heavy duty" on their box, but is it really a quality brand. http://www.haydenauto.com/index.htm
Hope this info is helpful.
You mentioned a Summit high flow thermostat...I looked it up on their site and I wonder if it flows as well as a Robershaw / Mr Gasket. Instlallinig the Mr Gasket brand of high flow stat DRAMATICALLY reduced my temperatures. It may be worth a try. Secondly, there are some different brands of fan clutches...is yours really a heavy duty? I've been spending some time on the Hayden web site trying to find a way to get a heavy duty fan clutch on my 71 to improve low speed cooling. According to their site the HD clutch turns at a faster speed than their standard thermal clutch. Its easy for any company to throw the word "heavy duty" on their box, but is it really a quality brand. http://www.haydenauto.com/index.htm
Hope this info is helpful.
BTW...I tried running A/C (70 mph)pulling a gradual grade(Amboy to Barstow) and temps creeped...slowly..to 220)...I got chicken and shut A/C down...temps came back down to 205 and pretty much stayed there...and Raytek ground temps were 150 F...
Rich
08-18-2006, 12:20 AM
#27
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2002
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2 things to check: timing and vac leaks. 6-16 degrees is not enough advance. Retarding spark will cause it to run hotter. I tried running without a vac advance distributor, and it would heat up over 220 on the highway. Around town it was fine. You need 36 mechanical advance in before 3000 rpm, then another 10-16 on a vac cannister at cruising speed for 52 total at cruise.
I learned this from forum member Matt Gruber who dyno tunes down here in FL.
Vacuum leaks will make it run lean and hot too.
I learned this from forum member Matt Gruber who dyno tunes down here in FL.
Vacuum leaks will make it run lean and hot too.
08-18-2006, 12:24 AM
#28
Originally Posted by vetteaddic
Put a 160 tstat,or try without one and see if any change.
and here is why...my 69 502 has a C/B four row, clutch fan (5 blade) and a 180 F stat(no A/C)...since June,where I live air temps have been 90-100...a few days at 113 (new record)..this 69 runs no hotter than 205 in stop/go traffic,on highway at 80 mph even pulling a hill...in 90 F just tooling around town at 40-50,it runs 180-195...not a problem IMO..
Rich
08-18-2006, 12:51 AM
#29
Burning Brakes
thermostat
Take the thermostat out of the equation. Do the boil water to see when it opens. I worked with an old time mechanic who showed me 4 different brand new thermostats that opened at different temps than they were supposed to. Some did not open enough to allow decent flow. So this is important as several other people have stated.
08-18-2006, 01:20 AM
#30
Originally Posted by tigers123
Take the thermostat out of the equation. Do the boil water to see when it opens. I worked with an old time mechanic who showed me 4 different brand new thermostats that opened at different temps than they were supposed to. Some did not open enough to allow decent flow. So this is important as several other people have stated.
Think your tee shirt reading was 102 F.....
08-18-2006, 03:46 AM
#33
Team Owner
so do you have the dual electric fans installed but not hooked up and operating? I guess they spin on their own when you are at highway speeds, or maybe even the mechanical fan gets enough air going to make them spin. But are they obstructing air flow? If you are overheating at highway speeds I would suspect an airflow problem. How hard would it be to remove the electric fans that you aren't using?
08-18-2006, 05:41 AM
#34
Le Mans Master
What kind of aluminum H2O pump are you running? The 1984 and later pumps are reverse rotation for serpentine drive belt systems. Maybe your H2O pump is causing problems, I would also say that timing that is not advanced enough will cause overheating problems along with lean fuel mixtures. Have you had Air Fuel Ratio checked? is your timing at least 8 to 10 degrees initial with a decent advance curve? did you get the cooling system filled all the way? (I fill my Vette through the thermostat housing, then mount the Tstat and finish filling the radiator.) One last thought, is the radiator sealed to the support like it was when Chevy built your Vette? If the radiator insn't sealed, air will leak around the radiator and kill the cooling efficency of a Vette.
08-18-2006, 07:31 AM
#35
Melting Slicks
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Other than installing dual spalls there should be nothing wrong with your cooling system. I continue to believe it has something to do with your engine. Your timing,as suggested above, could very well be causing all the problem. You didn't say if you had the problem before the engine swap. There are too many people not having your problem with the changes you have made. You will solve it and all will be good!
Bernie
Bernie
08-18-2006, 08:10 AM
#36
Drifting
Mine was hitting about 210 on the highway with the AC on, 195 everywhere else. That was with a C/B rad. with dual spals, the cultch fan wouldn't even keep it from overheating at idle, much less going down the road.
Went with an alum rad. and dual spals before i put the motor back in this time, and I cant get it to go up to 190. Idles around 155, normal driving 165, and AC on about 180. I left my thermostat out but now I'm thinking I need to put it back in. after 5-10 minutes after shutting it off I can lay my hand on the radiator and it's cool, try that with a C/B.
I'm not saying dual spals will correct your problem, but it can't hurt. My motor is radical and put's out a tremendous amout of heat under the hood (hot enough to melt cheap plastic wire seperators!!), so the inside of the motor has to be way hotter. BTW, I live in Ga. and the temps here are high 90's to 100's all summer.
Went with an alum rad. and dual spals before i put the motor back in this time, and I cant get it to go up to 190. Idles around 155, normal driving 165, and AC on about 180. I left my thermostat out but now I'm thinking I need to put it back in. after 5-10 minutes after shutting it off I can lay my hand on the radiator and it's cool, try that with a C/B.
I'm not saying dual spals will correct your problem, but it can't hurt. My motor is radical and put's out a tremendous amout of heat under the hood (hot enough to melt cheap plastic wire seperators!!), so the inside of the motor has to be way hotter. BTW, I live in Ga. and the temps here are high 90's to 100's all summer.
08-18-2006, 09:32 AM
#37
Tech Contributor
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Originally Posted by vetteaddic
Put a 160 tstat,or try without one and see if any change.
I agree that temporarily removing the thermostat (for testing only) might provide some interesting information regarding the effects of coolant flow rates and cooling differences. But I'm guessing the solution will be unrelated to the thermostat.
08-18-2006, 10:42 AM
#38
Team Owner
Let me preface this by saying I drove a 1979 for 17 years.
I will go against the current by saying your 1979 is probably running at perfectly normal temps. I base that on those years of experience at summer temps from 40F to 100F. A t-stat of 195F is correct for your car (for emissions reasons). In fact if you go to a GM dealer that is the only one they stock. That sets the baseline, warm-up temp. At the ambient temps you mention it is probably open 80% of the time. Switching to 160 or 180 will make no difference. Water boils at 212F. If you use a 60/40 or 50/50 coolant mix and combine that with a 15psi rad cap, that raises the boiling point quite substantially. Your temp gauge is red-lined (danger zone) at 250 if I remember correctly. I would also point out that the optional GM auxiliary electrical cooling fan in 1979 had a temp sensor/switch in the passenger side head that activated at 238F.
All this to say that operating temps of 195 to 215 are not unusual. In fact at the latter, water under 15psi of pressure would not even boil. My 1979 did not have A/C but at 70mph on a 90F day the top of the range at 210-215 was consistent over many summers. I sold the car in 2003 (to family) and to this day it is still seeing those temps. And still running well.
I will go against the current by saying your 1979 is probably running at perfectly normal temps. I base that on those years of experience at summer temps from 40F to 100F. A t-stat of 195F is correct for your car (for emissions reasons). In fact if you go to a GM dealer that is the only one they stock. That sets the baseline, warm-up temp. At the ambient temps you mention it is probably open 80% of the time. Switching to 160 or 180 will make no difference. Water boils at 212F. If you use a 60/40 or 50/50 coolant mix and combine that with a 15psi rad cap, that raises the boiling point quite substantially. Your temp gauge is red-lined (danger zone) at 250 if I remember correctly. I would also point out that the optional GM auxiliary electrical cooling fan in 1979 had a temp sensor/switch in the passenger side head that activated at 238F.
All this to say that operating temps of 195 to 215 are not unusual. In fact at the latter, water under 15psi of pressure would not even boil. My 1979 did not have A/C but at 70mph on a 90F day the top of the range at 210-215 was consistent over many summers. I sold the car in 2003 (to family) and to this day it is still seeing those temps. And still running well.
Last edited by Paul L; 08-18-2006 at 10:46 AM.
08-18-2006, 11:30 AM
#39
Race Director
Originally Posted by paul67
Let me preface this by saying I drove a 1979 for 17 years.
I will go against the current by saying your 1979 is probably running at perfectly normal temps. I base that on those years of experience at summer temps from 40F to 100F. A t-stat of 195F is correct for your car (for emissions reasons). In fact if you go to a GM dealer that is the only one they stock. That sets the baseline, warm-up temp. At the ambient temps you mention it is probably open 80% of the time. Switching to 160 or 180 will make no difference. Water boils at 212F. If you use a 60/40 or 50/50 coolant mix and combine that with a 15psi rad cap, that raises the boiling point quite substantially. Your temp gauge is red-lined (danger zone) at 250 if I remember correctly. I would also point out that the optional GM auxiliary electrical cooling fan in 1979 had a temp sensor/switch in the passenger side head that activated at 238F.
All this to say that operating temps of 195 to 215 are not unusual. In fact at the latter, water under 15psi of pressure would not even boil. My 1979 did not have A/C but at 70mph on a 90F day the top of the range at 210-215 was consistent over many summers. I sold the car in 2003 (to family) and to this day it is still seeing those temps. And still running well.
I will go against the current by saying your 1979 is probably running at perfectly normal temps. I base that on those years of experience at summer temps from 40F to 100F. A t-stat of 195F is correct for your car (for emissions reasons). In fact if you go to a GM dealer that is the only one they stock. That sets the baseline, warm-up temp. At the ambient temps you mention it is probably open 80% of the time. Switching to 160 or 180 will make no difference. Water boils at 212F. If you use a 60/40 or 50/50 coolant mix and combine that with a 15psi rad cap, that raises the boiling point quite substantially. Your temp gauge is red-lined (danger zone) at 250 if I remember correctly. I would also point out that the optional GM auxiliary electrical cooling fan in 1979 had a temp sensor/switch in the passenger side head that activated at 238F.
All this to say that operating temps of 195 to 215 are not unusual. In fact at the latter, water under 15psi of pressure would not even boil. My 1979 did not have A/C but at 70mph on a 90F day the top of the range at 210-215 was consistent over many summers. I sold the car in 2003 (to family) and to this day it is still seeing those temps. And still running well.
Check your owners manuals these emission cars are setup for 210-230-they get better milage and pollute less at those temps..