Roy M

I recently experienced something that I have yet to figure what it is. After driving for about 150 miles in about 70
degree heat, stopped at a Waffle House for something to eat, went back out to the car about 30 minutes later,
hit the key and nothing. Had lights so knew battery was good and gage showed 11.8 volts. When turning the key,
nothing, just like the car was in gear (it is automatic), guy came along and offered his help. We took the starter
off, took to local AutoZone, put it on their machine and the starter engaged. Was some smoke that came out of the
solenoid but the starter checked out.
Got back to the car, installed the starter, and car fired right up. Have only checked it a couple of times since then,
but it started with no problems. Pulled the starter and going to get checked again.
I guess my question is the symptoms mentioned above, are they in any way related to the heat soak problem.
Thanks

jerryp58

I have not had my starter experience heat soak (wood :smash: ), but 30 minutes sounds like a long time to stay that hot. I guess it would actually get hotter right after shutting the car down, but still 30 minutes and 70 degrees :confused:

Sounds like it could be a starter or selenoid on it's way out.

BTW, nice helpful citizen story.

Eddie 70

This same thing happened to me when I had my 79. Sometimes when I just stopped for gas it wouldn`t start. I finally pulled the starter and changed the solenoid and it never happened again. Easy swap too. Just remember that the solenoid must be rotated to be removed from the starter. Hope this helps.

StrayDog

Same situation with my 66, big/block , went through 3 starters ,resolved via a high tourgue mini starter & puting a remote solinoid on the firewall,see the do it yourself tech section....no problems , situation resolved & antique & heavy starter :blueangel: is now in heaven, worked for me. :cheers:

red topless gator

I had the same problem with my 79. Yes it is heat soak. When the starter gets hot, usually after a long trip, it will not start for around 30 minutes or so. I replaced mine and the old one is in the shop to be rebuilt so it will still be the original....Hope this helps...LT

DaveL82

Two ways to solve the problem. Install hi torque mini starter as mentioned or improve the starter wiring for the original type starter.

I bought my car 17 years ago and experience heat soak when headers were installed (can also happen with stock exhaust manifolds).

What I found was that the stock starter circuit from the ignition switch sometimes does not supply enough current to the starter solenoid (solenoids need more current as the heat increases).

I corrected the problem by taking the starter wire off the solenoid and I now use it to close a relay. Then I added another fusible link directly to the battery (either at the starter where the main battery cable connects or run a 12gauge wire to the battery). The other side of the relay switch is then connect to the solenoid. So now when the ignition is switch is in the start position, the relay is closed and direct battery current is supplied to the start connector on the solenoid.

This solves all heat soak problems on the original starter and would also be a good addtion to a mini starter.

This is a easy fix.

Dave

jerryp58

If the problem is heat soak, do the insulation blankets (or other insulation products) not work well?

Roy M

Just got back from having the starter checked again. Checked on machine at Autozone, engaged each time with
no problem. I guess that I am still trying to figure out what to do. As said earlier, the car had been sitting for
about 30 minutes when tried to start. The headers were cool to the touch when started removing the starter. If
this was indeed heat soak, should not the starter engaged by this time? Was going to purchase new starter but
they had none in stock. One guy said that the brushes or solenoid could be going bad and just not engaging all the
time. About four days before this, drove approximately 300 miles with the same conditions and no problem with
starting which leads me to think that something is wrong with the starter or solenoid even though it shows good
when being tested. Will probably pick up another starter, only $31 with lifetime warranty, have wasted a lot more
on unnecessary items.
Thanks for all the replies

Rob's 73

I had this problem on my truck. Put one of those insulation blankets on it and never had a problem since (4 years).

MIKER

Check out this thread from the Archives:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=119602

Snaketr>>>
Use the G.M. ministarter. I put them on everything I have. You can get them from a Junk yard cheap. If you have a 168 flywheel you will need to get it off of a 350 1500 series truck from 95-99. If you have a 153 you will need to get it off a LT-1 Camaro. The LT1 Corvette will not work because it is a totally different design. I just put one on my 86 vette in it only cost me 30 bucks.

I purchased one of these starters to use on my '80 with a 383 and it does work well. Just another option!

jerryp58

How do all of the connections look?
Especially the ground?

Paul L

I put up with the problem for quite some time and early this summer finally got fed up with a "slow" or non-functional starter in hot conditions. Just bloody annoying. I purchased a GM high-torque mini-starter (#12361146) and added a Moroso heat shield. Not cheap (~$180.00) but the summer was problem free.



I initially thought that the heat shield was on the wrong side (block rather than exhaust pipe). But it could only go on one way based on the bolt configuration??? In an earlier thread I was informed not so. More residual heat is in the block rather than the pipe when stopped. Heat dissipates much more quickly from the pipe than from the engine. And from my lack of starter problems this last summer season, that appears to be the case.




[Modified by paul79, 6:54 PM 10/27/2001]

74ZZ430

I had the same problem you had in about the same time frame. Purchase a special GM high temp. starter solenoid spring, for less than $3.00 and never had the problem again. I can't find the part # at this time . Another forum member had supplied me with the part #.

glen242

Paul:

I am really confused. I put a Moroso heat sheild on my stock '76 starter and it bolted up just fine, except it faces the exhaust header not the block as yours does. Had it on for a couple of years with no problems.

Did I install it assbackwards?

Roy M

Glad to see the pictures. Went ahead and purchased another starter the same as one on the car. Ordered
and received the Moroso heat shield yesterday. Of course it had no instructions with it. Would have figured that
it would have gone on the opposite way but it makes sense that the headers would cool down much quicker than
block. Will probably install tomorrow. Hope I can get it on without removing the starter, don't know about anyone
else but on mine it is a major undertaking, might even rather change heater core than the starter.
Thanks for all the advise and the pictures. If have problem next summer, will go with the mini starter

Steve Grodin

You can also install a remote solenoid away from any heat source.

oger

All you should need is the lighter solenoid spring. What happens is the piston gets tight in the solenoid from the heat soak and can't move the heavier stock spring. The lighter spring allows the piston to move engaging the starter. I have run most of my drag cars without a spring and had no probems.

glen242

Paul:

Your post stated:

"I initially thought that the heat shield was on the wrong side (block rather than exhaust pipe). But it
could only go on one way based on the bolt configuration??? In an earlier thread I was informed not
so. More residual heat is in the block rather than the pipe when stopped. Heat dissipates much more
quickly from the pipe than from the engine. And from my lack of starter problems this last summer
season that appears to be the case."

I dug through my catalogs, Jegs and Summit, and both companies' ads say the heat shield, Moroso or Summit brand, are to protect the starter from exhaust heat. To quote Summit, "One of our stainless steel heat shields will keep exhaust heat away from your starter, curing the dreaded 'heat soak'"

Checking my Chevy service manual, I find a picture of a factory installed heat shield on a 454 big block, and it is between the exhaust and the starter, not between the block and the starter.

My opinion is, during engine operation, the exhaust system is hotter than the engine block and this is the source of the heat that the starter picks up and retains.

Paul or anyone, am I FOS?




[Modified by glen242, 1:03 AM 10/28/2001]

Paul L

Glen,
What you say certainly makes sense. And that was the configuration that I was trying to achieve. But with the GM mini-starter, the pic above was the only way the bolts and holes would line up. I twisted and turned, etc. Perhaps I have a bastard set-up: trying to fit Moroso on a GM part. But as I noted, in a thread back in June or so, I was informed that if you take each individual part (block, exhaust pipe, starter) and heat to a certain temperature, the starter and pipe will cool very quickly but the block retains heat for quite some time. Thus the conclusion was that the heat flow to the starter from the block will continue long after the pipe to starter flow has stopped. I do not know if there is a right or wrong answer but that GM product worked very well this summer. Perhaps in spite of the bastardized set-up.

jerryp58

FWIW, here's a pic of the stock heat shield from the '77 AIM http://users.erols.com/jerryp58/corvette/starter.jpg .

It looks to me like it's trying to protect the selenoid from the exhaust.

Paul79 -- After staring at your two pictures for about 10 minutes I think I finally have a mental picture of where the starter selenoid is in relation to the exhaust. Maybe the starter itself isn't protected completely from exhaust heat, but isn't the end of the selenoid protected from the exhaust?


[Modified by jerryp58, 8:30 AM 10/28/2001]