Bolting on a dual Spal fan to a stock radiator qu.s??
11-04-2007, 02:12 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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Bolting on a dual Spal fan to a stock radiator qu.s??
I should be able to reinstall my radiator with the dual spal fans next week. The shroud for the fans has bolt holes in it, so would it be a problem to run bolts through the radiator with some sort of a flat tab on the backside to secure it? Any other options?
11-04-2007, 02:37 PM
#2
Race Director
When I ran the single fan on mine I had the Spal fan and brackets tha tDewitts supplied. It went into the top of the rad. I never liked the idea of bolting all tha tweight into the fins of the rad. I know it has been done but it is just asking for problems down the road. See if Dewitts can get you the correct brackets for the mounting.
11-04-2007, 02:48 PM
#3
Le Mans Master
When I ran the single fan on mine I had the Spal fan and brackets tha tDewitts supplied. It went into the top of the rad. I never liked the idea of bolting all tha tweight into the fins of the rad. I know it has been done but it is just asking for problems down the road. See if Dewitts can get you the correct brackets for the mounting.
Running bolts through the radiator fins is just asking for trouble. Here is how the Spal mount to my BeCool radiator:
11-04-2007, 02:55 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
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I installed a mid 90's Lincoln Mark VIII 2 speed fan on my 69 big block. I just had to make 4 tabs to rivet the fan shroud to the radiator. That was easy, I'm an aircraft sheetmetal mechanic. I would NOT bolt thru my radiator, that is really the lazy easy way out, and just asking for more work down the road. I would say not too far down the road either. Do as you see fit, but a few of us say "NO WAY". Tank
11-04-2007, 05:49 PM
#6
Team Owner
I installed a mid 90's Lincoln Mark VIII 2 speed fan on my 69 big block. I just had to make 4 tabs to rivet the fan shroud to the radiator. That was easy, I'm an aircraft sheetmetal mechanic. I would NOT bolt thru my radiator, that is really the lazy easy way out, and just asking for more work down the road. I would say not too far down the road either. Do as you see fit, but a few of us say "NO WAY". Tank
Tom DeWitt here has hung his Dual Spal fans off the rad top/bottom supports for years now, in countless cars with GOD knows what configurations....
BUT, not having one of his rads....and a set of HIS Dual Spals...
I chose to mount them using the rear up/down most tabs of the rad mount brackets....drilling/bolting a cross brace of 1/8 inch aluminum L bracket.....and modding to fit nicely....holding the Spals nice and neat across the top/bottom....and then fitting some nice house roof flashing from the spal shroud to the rad edges...4 sides....
seals fine, makes a HUGE SHROUD outta the whole mess, and cools every part of the rad with same airflow, and they suck like MAD....
CURED any hint of overheating here in FLORIDA last summer....
figger 140f on the pavement, in traffic off the freeway, and it's COOL....
and I just got a simple '89? V8 Camaro radiator....stockish...aluminum with plastic tanks...same single row core size....
11-04-2007, 06:02 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
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Very good Mrvette. I live in Tucson, AZ and it gets kinda hot here too. I have a 71 Corvette 454 in my 69 Vette. I am having to "fix" everybodys inattentionfor a number of years. Mine has been on blocks since 23 Dec. 06, almost a year, I know. I had 5 radiators sent to me before I got one that was usable and correct size to install. It's a 4 row on 9/16" centers, so it has ,feasably, a better chance to cool this thing.
The Mark VIII fan pulls about 5000cfm on high speed, but also spikes up to 50-55 amps on intial start-up. It pushes leaves out from under the car, out the back. Works like a champ so far..........getting close to putting it back on the ground and drive it like I stole it again.
The Mark VIII fan pulls about 5000cfm on high speed, but also spikes up to 50-55 amps on intial start-up. It pushes leaves out from under the car, out the back. Works like a champ so far..........getting close to putting it back on the ground and drive it like I stole it again.
11-04-2007, 07:26 PM
#8
Team Owner
Very good Mrvette. I live in Tucson, AZ and it gets kinda hot here too. I have a 71 Corvette 454 in my 69 Vette. I am having to "fix" everybodys inattentionfor a number of years. Mine has been on blocks since 23 Dec. 06, almost a year, I know. I had 5 radiators sent to me before I got one that was usable and correct size to install. It's a 4 row on 9/16" centers, so it has ,feasably, a better chance to cool this thing.
The Mark VIII fan pulls about 5000cfm on high speed, but also spikes up to 50-55 amps on intial start-up. It pushes leaves out from under the car, out the back. Works like a champ so far..........getting close to putting it back on the ground and drive it like I stole it again.
The Mark VIII fan pulls about 5000cfm on high speed, but also spikes up to 50-55 amps on intial start-up. It pushes leaves out from under the car, out the back. Works like a champ so far..........getting close to putting it back on the ground and drive it like I stole it again.
HEHE...out there visiting my sis, Aug/Sept last year.....
nice territory, no question.....not all THAT hot when we were there....
I know you will far exceed temps here in Florida though by about 20f....
I do question your fan ratings though....is that through a stockish radiator?? or in open air, and what kind of shrouds/other load factors??
like anything else in motive works....gotta know just perzactly all the test peramators to determine HP, or suck/blow in the case of a fan.....
maybe something else too, but that's another forum....
11-04-2007, 09:40 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
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There are hundreds of articles on this computer thingy that cover the Mark VIII fan. I've seen more than a few articles for the cfm they pull. I do know that with a battery reading 11.8v static, that fan will almost float on the floor. Reverse the wires and it's almost impossible to lift off the floor. A lot of 5.0 Mustang guys are using them, I know drag racers that use them on 8 sec. 1/4 mi. racers. Hot rodders in southern AZ use them all year long with temps of 110 almost every day in the long summer months. I have an untested radiator in my 69, but I feel comfortable with the fan. What else? Tank
11-04-2007, 09:49 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
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OK guys thanks a lot. I'll fab up a mount from the top of the radiator support somehow. I can use the 'be cool' diagram and figure something out pretty easy I think.
Do you think 2800 cfm is enough flow? Didn't realize the Mark XIII fans were 5,000 or I would have got one of them.
Do you think 2800 cfm is enough flow? Didn't realize the Mark XIII fans were 5,000 or I would have got one of them.
11-04-2007, 09:54 PM
#11
Melting Slicks
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Maybe in Kanas that will be enough, but I'm not sure. What motor do you have? What radiator do you have? I bought my Mark VIII fan for $40 on Ebay. I'm gonna test this one, and find a new one maybe.......
Keep us posted on it!! Mine is gonna be on the ground in a week or two. I found a radiator that is brass and copper, by the numbers, it cools better than aluminum at idle. Only time and testing will tell. Tank
Keep us posted on it!! Mine is gonna be on the ground in a week or two. I found a radiator that is brass and copper, by the numbers, it cools better than aluminum at idle. Only time and testing will tell. Tank
11-04-2007, 09:57 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
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BTW, I mounted mine with aluminum straps (1.5"X4.5") mounted to the top and bottom "hat" channel on the radiator by useing rivets, very clean and simple. Use a back-up plate behind the fan's plastic shroud, meaning that the fan shroud was sandwiched between aluminum. Tank
11-04-2007, 10:25 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
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Radiator is the 4-core brass radiator, stock one for AC cars, think it's a good one, recently boiled out, purchased new about 12 years ago.
If you have some pictures of your mounting setup, that would help a lot?
If you have some pictures of your mounting setup, that would help a lot?
11-05-2007, 07:57 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
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i've got a dewitt rad and dual spals that came mounted by tom. i had to remove the fans and slide them over to the right to clear the driver's side a arm shaft.
jeff
jeff
11-05-2007, 09:12 AM
#15
Pro
I installed a mid 90's Lincoln Mark VIII 2 speed fan on my 69 big block. I just had to make 4 tabs to rivet the fan shroud to the radiator. That was easy, I'm an aircraft sheetmetal mechanic. I would NOT bolt thru my radiator, that is really the lazy easy way out, and just asking for more work down the road. I would say not too far down the road either. Do as you see fit, but a few of us say "NO WAY". Tank
I mocked up a MK VII fan with my stock rad and just needed 4 aluminum tabs and rivited the fan shroud to the rad, sealed the edges with weatherstriping tape, almost looks like it suposed to be there... Then I went out an bought a aluminum rad with dual spals Semper Fi Bob
11-05-2007, 11:05 AM
#16
Team Owner
As Tom DeWitt, here I think, some time ago posted about fan flow ratings....gotta do that on an 'as installed basis'.....meaning with shrouds, and a rad...maybe a/c cond in front of it all.....
open air readings are worthless, and mounted on a piece of plywood in open air is also useless.....gotta put a static load on it to really see....
and too boot, I like mounting the fans with some sort of shroud about 2" from the radiator/load so it gets pretty much equal airflow all over the radiator....
open air readings are worthless, and mounted on a piece of plywood in open air is also useless.....gotta put a static load on it to really see....
and too boot, I like mounting the fans with some sort of shroud about 2" from the radiator/load so it gets pretty much equal airflow all over the radiator....
11-05-2007, 04:59 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
As Tom DeWitt, here I think, some time ago posted about fan flow ratings....gotta do that on an 'as installed basis'.....meaning with shrouds, and a rad...maybe a/c cond in front of it all.....
open air readings are worthless, and mounted on a piece of plywood in open air is also useless.....gotta put a static load on it to really see....
and too boot, I like mounting the fans with some sort of shroud about 2" from the radiator/load so it gets pretty much equal airflow all over the radiator....
open air readings are worthless, and mounted on a piece of plywood in open air is also useless.....gotta put a static load on it to really see....
and too boot, I like mounting the fans with some sort of shroud about 2" from the radiator/load so it gets pretty much equal airflow all over the radiator....
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1816636
And the data:
I have read many threads over the last year touting MarkVIII fans. Some have even posted cfm and amperage ratings that I never could confirm or question, until now. Serveral months ago I sent a group of fans to a lab to have them tested. Amoung the fans was the MK8 and Spals' dual 11"s.
The lab results are shown below in a color curve. The MKVIII fan was tested at full speed and a lower speed (aprox. 75%). The left side of the chart represents air flow in cubic Feet per minute (CFM) and you would use only the solid lines when referencing the air flow. The right side represents amperage draw and you would use only the dash lines for this information. The bottom of the chart represents the resistance to the air flow in the form of pressure.
To start the comparison, we are going to focus on the solid red line (MK8) and the soild blue line (Spal dual 11's) with zero resistance or static pressure. Spal publishes this fan at 2760cfm and the chart confirms exactly that number while the MK8 tested just slightly below that or 2700 cfm. NOT THE 4000 CFM I have seen posted.
The amperage draw of the Spals is slightly higher, but that is understandable with a slightly higher flow. The amperage draws run paralell with each other until you hit the .6" pressure point (which is about what a radiator might provide) then the MK8 amperage runs up much higher.
My conclusion: using .6-.8" of resistance, these fans are about the same performance. That leaves price, packaging, and mounting and I feel Spal wins that comparision hands down. The Spal package incorporates (12) twelve free flow flaps for driving at high speed. When using our brackets, or even the Be-Cool brackets, the installation is much cleaner and the fans cover the core better.
The point of this thread is to provide all of you ACCURATE information. It is NOT to bash the MK8's or the users of them. They are good fans and I'm sure that everyone using them is happy, so no need to defend them or your decision to use them. They simply are not any higher rated that the Spals and they pull about the same amperage draw.
The lab results are shown below in a color curve. The MKVIII fan was tested at full speed and a lower speed (aprox. 75%). The left side of the chart represents air flow in cubic Feet per minute (CFM) and you would use only the solid lines when referencing the air flow. The right side represents amperage draw and you would use only the dash lines for this information. The bottom of the chart represents the resistance to the air flow in the form of pressure.
To start the comparison, we are going to focus on the solid red line (MK8) and the soild blue line (Spal dual 11's) with zero resistance or static pressure. Spal publishes this fan at 2760cfm and the chart confirms exactly that number while the MK8 tested just slightly below that or 2700 cfm. NOT THE 4000 CFM I have seen posted.
The amperage draw of the Spals is slightly higher, but that is understandable with a slightly higher flow. The amperage draws run paralell with each other until you hit the .6" pressure point (which is about what a radiator might provide) then the MK8 amperage runs up much higher.
My conclusion: using .6-.8" of resistance, these fans are about the same performance. That leaves price, packaging, and mounting and I feel Spal wins that comparision hands down. The Spal package incorporates (12) twelve free flow flaps for driving at high speed. When using our brackets, or even the Be-Cool brackets, the installation is much cleaner and the fans cover the core better.
The point of this thread is to provide all of you ACCURATE information. It is NOT to bash the MK8's or the users of them. They are good fans and I'm sure that everyone using them is happy, so no need to defend them or your decision to use them. They simply are not any higher rated that the Spals and they pull about the same amperage draw.
11-05-2007, 06:11 PM
#19
Former Vendor
Thanks SteveG75,
You saved me the trouble of digging this out.
CorvetteDave01,
I'd be happy to sell you a set of our dual brackets, pre-bent and engineered to fit spals. Part number is SP002 $40 with hardware.
here they are http://www.dewitts.com/pages/product...asp?ProdID=418
You saved me the trouble of digging this out.
CorvetteDave01,
I'd be happy to sell you a set of our dual brackets, pre-bent and engineered to fit spals. Part number is SP002 $40 with hardware.
here they are http://www.dewitts.com/pages/product...asp?ProdID=418
Last edited by Tom@Dewitt; 11-05-2007 at 09:50 PM.
11-05-2007, 11:44 PM
#20
Melting Slicks
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You guys have more money than I do, I'm just a retired enlisted AIR FORCE NCO. I use what works for me and my customers. I'm sure Mr. DeWitt makes a good radiator, I just don't suck up to no body just because they're a supporting member. I'm not disrespecting Mr. DeWitt, or any other supporting member, I've just made it this far with my own knowledge with very positive results. You can knock me and my non marine service all you want, I'm a big man and can handle it. I hope this doesn't strike you guys in a real bad manner, it's not intended to. Tank