Given up on tremec 5 speed--advice on another idea
07-09-2008, 05:24 AM
#221
Burning Brakes
Tom, if you can't raise the rear of the transmission, could you drop the front? Are thin engine mounts available?
I'd hate to cut the trans tunnel trying to find a solution, only to discover that the problem wasn't solved.
I'd hate to cut the trans tunnel trying to find a solution, only to discover that the problem wasn't solved.
07-09-2008, 08:17 AM
#222
Burning Brakes
Tried that..... I managed to get the motor down slightly, but any lower and the steering rod fouls on the sump at full lock.
There is also a limit how far the engine can drop before the harmonic balancer fouls on the cross member, or the fan fouls on the shroud....
My options are:
1/ raise the body by fitting shims at all the body mounts to chassis
2/ cut the underside body work at trans tunnel and firewall so as to raise the trans without fouling on body
3/ change diff angle with tapered shims to provide better driveline angles
4/ making a custom tailshaft with constant velocity joints instead of uni-joints.
5/ or I could just tolerate it and stay clear of 45~50 mph speed zones
I tried solution 5, but a lot of my driving through the winding roads of our Adelaide Hills requires a lot of time in that speed zone.
I need to find some time to tackle solution 3, as it is the easiest/cheapest solution to try.
If that doesn't change the vibration behaviour, then my problem may be elsewhere.
cheers
There is also a limit how far the engine can drop before the harmonic balancer fouls on the cross member, or the fan fouls on the shroud....
My options are:
1/ raise the body by fitting shims at all the body mounts to chassis
2/ cut the underside body work at trans tunnel and firewall so as to raise the trans without fouling on body
3/ change diff angle with tapered shims to provide better driveline angles
4/ making a custom tailshaft with constant velocity joints instead of uni-joints.
5/ or I could just tolerate it and stay clear of 45~50 mph speed zones
I tried solution 5, but a lot of my driving through the winding roads of our Adelaide Hills requires a lot of time in that speed zone.
I need to find some time to tackle solution 3, as it is the easiest/cheapest solution to try.
If that doesn't change the vibration behaviour, then my problem may be elsewhere.
cheers
Last edited by OzzyTom; 07-09-2008 at 08:29 AM.
07-09-2008, 02:13 PM
#223
Burning Brakes
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
too bad they wont pay the costs... i assume from the helpfullness of the mechanics around that they have tried warranty-ing their work.. if as stated before it gets better when you add gas, and are fully, 3 sounds like the next best idea.
next idea may not be the best... but how about sending it back for a refund and trying a different brand tranny.. at least if there is not someone around that can lend you their driveline. good luck on the diff changes
next idea may not be the best... but how about sending it back for a refund and trying a different brand tranny.. at least if there is not someone around that can lend you their driveline. good luck on the diff changes
07-09-2008, 03:04 PM
#224
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I've read a whole bunch of these threads agonizing about getting rid of the Tremac vibration...
Is it possible to say that no one has a vibration problem with the Richmond 5 speed? As far as I know it's a perfectly good transmission and it's a rugged one to boot. Also, it has a side-mounted shifter location and the shifter fits right up into the correct location on the console. It's a direct replacement, although the transmission to crossmember cushion bracket needs to be cut shorter and the mounting holes redrilled. You can install it with a non-removeable crossmember also, but life will be much happier if you modify your crossmember to be removeable. Also, the Richmond 5 speed is not all that expensive.
If you have a Tremac, you probably can't just replace it with a Richmond. The Tremac is an overdrive in 5th gear, the Richmond is 1:1 in 5th gear. (The Richmond is an "underdrive" in first gear). This difference in 5th gear ratios means that a differential used with the Tremac would be numerically too high for the Richmond (and vice versa).
Is it possible to say that no one has a vibration problem with the Richmond 5 speed? As far as I know it's a perfectly good transmission and it's a rugged one to boot. Also, it has a side-mounted shifter location and the shifter fits right up into the correct location on the console. It's a direct replacement, although the transmission to crossmember cushion bracket needs to be cut shorter and the mounting holes redrilled. You can install it with a non-removeable crossmember also, but life will be much happier if you modify your crossmember to be removeable. Also, the Richmond 5 speed is not all that expensive.
If you have a Tremac, you probably can't just replace it with a Richmond. The Tremac is an overdrive in 5th gear, the Richmond is 1:1 in 5th gear. (The Richmond is an "underdrive" in first gear). This difference in 5th gear ratios means that a differential used with the Tremac would be numerically too high for the Richmond (and vice versa).
07-09-2008, 03:28 PM
#225
Drifting
I understand Richmond has a 6 speed now, with 6th gear having an OD ratio available from .91 to .52.
http://www.powertrax.com/01sixspeed.html
http://www.powertrax.com/01sixspeed.html
07-09-2008, 03:39 PM
#226
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I understand Richmond has a 6 speed now, with 6th gear having an OD ratio available from .91 to .52.
http://www.powertrax.com/01sixspeed.html
http://www.powertrax.com/01sixspeed.html
I'm not sure if there is a ring and pinion set below 3:08 that will fit in the 3.XX carrier. If there is, that might be an economical alternative to the 6 speed.
07-09-2008, 03:56 PM
#227
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2.73:1. I have a ring and pinion set, but I've never installed it. I bought it to replace a 3.08:1, I bought it from a Chevy dealer. I believe the catalog indicated it would fit. Also, Tom's sells the 2.73 along with the other gear sets for series 3 carriers.
As for the other comments about the Richmond 6 speed. The gear shift lever needs to be modified slightly to fit the standard shift console. I've read posts where people where happy with the six speed. I have a Richmond 5 speed slated for my 70 BB. I'm planning on running power from a 502 through it. Seems like the 5 speed vendors that use Tremac's would be just as happy to sell you a Richmond!
Last edited by 68/70Vette; 07-09-2008 at 04:00 PM.
07-09-2008, 04:12 PM
#228
Burning Brakes
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I understand Richmond has a 6 speed now, with 6th gear having an OD ratio available from .91 to .52.
http://www.powertrax.com/01sixspeed.html
http://www.powertrax.com/01sixspeed.html
07-09-2008, 05:03 PM
#229
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St. Jude Donor 06-'07
Have posted on and off for 19 months on vibration problem with tremec 5 speed. Everythingfrom the driveshaft to new tires (and all the stuff between those components) has been replaced, rebalanced and reblessed by the local parish priest. The rythmic humming at 68 mph and higher and vibration in various parts of the body/steering wheel have been tended to by three good shops. The typical fix will last 100 to 200 miles and then return. Even made it to 130 mph with the latest solution of a 3 inch driveshaft only to have the problem resurface again. I give up; costs too much money to make this work. Want to put the old muncie back in but was thinking of something instead of the 3:08 in the rear end. Someone suggested a 2:73 but sounds too much for taking off in first. Looking for other ideas out there so fourth speed doesn't burn up the engine or gas. Help!
07-09-2008, 05:24 PM
#230
Race Director
Well I had the same problem as I posted earlier in this thread.... Keisler has been more than helpful. However I did pull the Tremec and put the Muncie back in and the vibration disappeared. I had some work completed by Keisler on the Tremec and hope to load it back in shortly. I think before I do the deed again I will replace the body mounts to insure that I can raise the tranny as needed.
Dave
Dave
07-09-2008, 10:17 PM
#231
Racer
Tried that..... I managed to get the motor down slightly, but any lower and the steering rod fouls on the sump at full lock.
There is also a limit how far the engine can drop before the harmonic balancer fouls on the cross member, or the fan fouls on the shroud....
My options are:
1/ raise the body by fitting shims at all the body mounts to chassis
2/ cut the underside body work at trans tunnel and firewall so as to raise the trans without fouling on body
3/ change diff angle with tapered shims to provide better driveline angles
4/ making a custom tailshaft with constant velocity joints instead of uni-joints.
5/ or I could just tolerate it and stay clear of 45~50 mph speed zones
I tried solution 5, but a lot of my driving through the winding roads of our Adelaide Hills requires a lot of time in that speed zone.
I need to find some time to tackle solution 3, as it is the easiest/cheapest solution to try.
If that doesn't change the vibration behaviour, then my problem may be elsewhere.
cheers
There is also a limit how far the engine can drop before the harmonic balancer fouls on the cross member, or the fan fouls on the shroud....
My options are:
1/ raise the body by fitting shims at all the body mounts to chassis
2/ cut the underside body work at trans tunnel and firewall so as to raise the trans without fouling on body
3/ change diff angle with tapered shims to provide better driveline angles
4/ making a custom tailshaft with constant velocity joints instead of uni-joints.
5/ or I could just tolerate it and stay clear of 45~50 mph speed zones
I tried solution 5, but a lot of my driving through the winding roads of our Adelaide Hills requires a lot of time in that speed zone.
I need to find some time to tackle solution 3, as it is the easiest/cheapest solution to try.
If that doesn't change the vibration behaviour, then my problem may be elsewhere.
cheers
Don't be afraid to try your option 4, which is to make a CV driveshaft, any driveshaft shop is more than capable of doing this, it will solve any alignment issues.
Just thinking out of the square, my Vette had a harmonic at 90kph, which turned out to be worn outer axle bearings - just saying this because I had similar frustrations as you with a '57 chev years ago which had a 3" 1350 type driveshaft that I had made for when i drag raced it. It had a 100kph harmonic, which was real annoying. This one turned out to be the driveshaft tube had been fitted with no sound deadening cardboard tube, so it was literally ringing like a bell. Solved it by cutting a yoke off, and fitting a cardboard tube.
07-09-2008, 10:55 PM
#232
Burning Brakes
Like I said previously.... I'll try solution 3 as it is simplest and cheapest.
If driveline angles is causing my problem, I should get some change in the characteristic of the vibration.... it will either shift in intensity or shift in speed at which it occurs. If I do NOT get a change, then driveline angles could be excluded from my potential cause list.
If the vibration issue improves, but is still not satisfactory due to physical limitations of diff angle changes, then the CV jointed tailshaft would be an option.
I am not criticising Tremec or CC5S as yet, as I have NOT completely eliminated all potential issues with my installation.
The box itself is awesome.
The gear change is crisp and quiet and clean.
The clutch setup is awesome.... not heavy, yet provides good grip.
Fitting the 5sp in place of the TH400 auto has changed the character of my vette completely... and of course, having a few more neddies has helped too
I haven't lost hope yet.... just need time to do some more wrenching.
cheers
tom
If driveline angles is causing my problem, I should get some change in the characteristic of the vibration.... it will either shift in intensity or shift in speed at which it occurs. If I do NOT get a change, then driveline angles could be excluded from my potential cause list.
If the vibration issue improves, but is still not satisfactory due to physical limitations of diff angle changes, then the CV jointed tailshaft would be an option.
I am not criticising Tremec or CC5S as yet, as I have NOT completely eliminated all potential issues with my installation.
The box itself is awesome.
The gear change is crisp and quiet and clean.
The clutch setup is awesome.... not heavy, yet provides good grip.
Fitting the 5sp in place of the TH400 auto has changed the character of my vette completely... and of course, having a few more neddies has helped too
I haven't lost hope yet.... just need time to do some more wrenching.
cheers
tom
07-09-2008, 11:10 PM
#233
I tried the CV joint at the front of the drive shaft and that did not work for me either. The thing that I do know that I could put my Muncie back in and everything was smooth as glass. Then I put a T5 in and things are still smooth as glass 20000 miles later.
Jeff
Jeff
07-12-2008, 02:17 PM
#234
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Rich,
It's Gary back again; the guy who originally started this thread and whom you've been graciously helping over the many months of chasing the vibration demon. Today we got the transmission down 2.75 and the rear end up 2.75. Vibration still there above 88 to 90. Don't feel it in 4th gear. Don't feel it going down hill with the clutch in, so don't think it's in the wheels/tires. Still think it's in the rotating assembly somewhere between the transmission to the last U joint in the halfshaft.
Am wondering how you take measurements for the horizontal alignment when one doesn't have the original angles before removing the original transmission and driveshaft. That's the next step, we figure. Also wondering how your tranny dyno can find vibration in the transmission any differently than me just taking the driveshaft out and running the engine in place up to the speed the vibration starts as was earlier suggested in this thread.
Looking forward to hearing from you, as it seems, a lot of others as well. Anytime a thread gets 1400 views and over 60 replies you know you're on to something...
It's Gary back again; the guy who originally started this thread and whom you've been graciously helping over the many months of chasing the vibration demon. Today we got the transmission down 2.75 and the rear end up 2.75. Vibration still there above 88 to 90. Don't feel it in 4th gear. Don't feel it going down hill with the clutch in, so don't think it's in the wheels/tires. Still think it's in the rotating assembly somewhere between the transmission to the last U joint in the halfshaft.
Am wondering how you take measurements for the horizontal alignment when one doesn't have the original angles before removing the original transmission and driveshaft. That's the next step, we figure. Also wondering how your tranny dyno can find vibration in the transmission any differently than me just taking the driveshaft out and running the engine in place up to the speed the vibration starts as was earlier suggested in this thread.
Looking forward to hearing from you, as it seems, a lot of others as well. Anytime a thread gets 1400 views and over 60 replies you know you're on to something...
Next, I do not know if the vendors build any correction factor into the crossmember adapters but if not and your crankshaft angle was exactly
the same before and after the swap, there would most likely be a slight change in any driveshaft angle you had. Whether or not this would be enough to make a difference... I don't know.
Last edited by Red 71; 07-12-2008 at 06:39 PM.
